4 ms·

My wife is a UK citizen and we have considered moving there, but even when I was a lowly two years of experience sysadmin they couldn't put up a salary that mad

My wife is a UK citizen and we have considered moving there, but even when I was a lowly two years of experience sysadmin they couldn't put up a salary that made sense (and yes that factors healthcare into account). You'd think they are at a wage floor already but it seems that it can go lower.

djohnston 4y ago
I took a big paycut to move out here. It has tradeoffs and I'm relatively young without family, but yeah it is a little annoying seeing intra-company peers making 30% more to do the same thing. My bet is that an island is easier to defend from mass migration once the water wars kick off in a few decades - and it's pretty fun to travel about Europe in the meantime.
- kmlx 4y ago
  > once the water wars kick off in a few decades ?? could you provide some details about this? i thought water is a non issue because we have incredible amounts of it that just needs energy to desalinate, energy which will come very cheap in a couple of decades.
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    > just needs energy to desalinate That's a very load-bearing "just". Germany is busy shooting itself in the head by turning off their nuclear reactors.
  - n4r9 4y ago
    I wondered whether they were referring to rising sea levels, but then it would make a lot more sense to go to Norway.
  - djohnston 4y ago
    I think modernised nations will be able to produce that sort of massive energy, and are also less likely to be impacted by climate change related droughts/famines in the first place. Unfortunately and unjustly it's the poor countries along the equator that are f*cked, and unless some crazy political restructuring happens these countries don't have a shot of updating their economies fast enough to desalinate their way out of oblivion.
  - infinite8s 4y ago
    Cheap energy has always been a few decades away...
- gadders 4y ago
  >> My bet is that an island is easier to defend from mass migration Not currently if you look at the boats crossing the channel.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    The argument, rarely said explicitly except by talk radio hosts, is that the navy will be deployed to either mass murder them directly or to hole their boats and leave them to drown. As happens in the Mediterranean. (This is obviously a crime, so special legislation will be enacted to let the state murder undesirables)
    - gadders 4y ago
      At the moment, the French navy shadows them into british waters, and then the RNLI provides a taxi to shore for them. They then manage to remain in the UK indefinitely. And the people smugglers make about £5k per person for the migrants.
  - djohnston 4y ago
    That's only because things aren't serious yet. If there were dedicated political will the channel could be handily sealed off, and it's great that we aren't in such a dire place yet but were it to arise those boats would never make it.
schnitzelstoat 4y ago
And the UK actually has pretty decent tech sector wages compared to many other European countries.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Indeed, the UK-ans have it pretty good on that island in terms of tech jobs and pay vs most of their continental neighbors. In most other western EU countries wages are even more depressing than the UK if you don't have big-tech companies in your area or a low tax-rate self employment scheme to make remote job opportunities appealing (looking at you Austria).
- 0xy 4y ago
  Except Switzerland, of course. But you are right, salaries in Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands can only be described as an insult to developers. You get screwed royally in Europe, but only screwed half way in Switzerland and the UK. You'll still earn half your US counterparts, and pay more in taxes for the privilege.
dijit 4y ago
I suspect you're a US citizen? In general EU salaries seem very low compared to US ones. (saying EU in general, not that the UK is EU anymore). Its important then to compare to your contemporaries, and to understand quality of life instead of absolute numbers. It's apples to oranges.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  I'm in the US. I don't really see how my standard of living would go up going from owning my own home to living in a tiny apartment. Different strokes for different folks of course but for me it would be a big drop in standard of living.
  - dijit 4y ago
    You don't have to live in a tiny apartment, you can live anywhere you want but you'll have to commute. Public transport being half decent means you don't have to actively drive everywhere freeing up time for yourself, even if you have a long commute. I don't think there's many owning their own houses in NYC or DTLA, it's weird to compare like this.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      > You don't have to live in a tiny apartment, you can live anywhere you want but you'll have to commute. Running the numbers I couldn't afford it. Property is very expensive in the UK. We have a few of her relatives come visit and they kept telling me how big my house is, they kept bringing it up and I thought it was British sarcasm and they were being assholes because my house is less than 1200 sq feet on a third of acre. They were being genuine. My house is one of the smallest in my town, I don't think you can even legally build them this small anymore. > I don't think there's many owning their own houses in NYC or DTLA, it's weird to compare like this. I don't live there for the same reason, I can make more money but it will all go to paying rent for a tiny apartment.
      - swores 4y ago
pledg 4y ago
Moving from where?
bbarn 4y ago
I moved to Iceland, and it's pretty much like you say England is. Half the salary, and worse health care than the US by far. If you factor in taxes, and the portion of my taxes that goes to the health care system (61%) I pay more than I did with excellent health care coverage in my US tech jobs. Inflation is running rampant, further fueled by a post-covid tourism boom, and salaries haven't budged in years.
dzonga 4y ago
for these things you can't just do a currency conversion. you've to adjust both salaries to PPP terms. but yeah roughly a decently paid mid-western techie will have around(~10-20%) the same take home pay as a decently paid uk techie

djohnston 4y ago

I took a big paycut to move out here. It has tradeoffs and I'm relatively young without family, but yeah it is a little annoying seeing intra-company peers making 30% more to do the same thing. My bet is that an island is easier to defend from mass migration once the water wars kick off in a few decades - and it's pretty fun to travel about Europe in the meantime.

kmlx 4y ago
> once the water wars kick off in a few decades ?? could you provide some details about this? i thought water is a non issue because we have incredible amounts of it that just needs energy to desalinate, energy which will come very cheap in a couple of decades.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  > just needs energy to desalinate That's a very load-bearing "just". Germany is busy shooting itself in the head by turning off their nuclear reactors.
- n4r9 4y ago
  I wondered whether they were referring to rising sea levels, but then it would make a lot more sense to go to Norway.
- djohnston 4y ago
  I think modernised nations will be able to produce that sort of massive energy, and are also less likely to be impacted by climate change related droughts/famines in the first place. Unfortunately and unjustly it's the poor countries along the equator that are f*cked, and unless some crazy political restructuring happens these countries don't have a shot of updating their economies fast enough to desalinate their way out of oblivion.
- infinite8s 4y ago
  Cheap energy has always been a few decades away...
gadders 4y ago
>> My bet is that an island is easier to defend from mass migration Not currently if you look at the boats crossing the channel.
- pjc50 4y ago
  The argument, rarely said explicitly except by talk radio hosts, is that the navy will be deployed to either mass murder them directly or to hole their boats and leave them to drown. As happens in the Mediterranean. (This is obviously a crime, so special legislation will be enacted to let the state murder undesirables)
  - gadders 4y ago
    At the moment, the French navy shadows them into british waters, and then the RNLI provides a taxi to shore for them. They then manage to remain in the UK indefinitely. And the people smugglers make about £5k per person for the migrants.
- djohnston 4y ago
  That's only because things aren't serious yet. If there were dedicated political will the channel could be handily sealed off, and it's great that we aren't in such a dire place yet but were it to arise those boats would never make it.

schnitzelstoat 4y ago

And the UK actually has pretty decent tech sector wages compared to many other European countries.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Indeed, the UK-ans have it pretty good on that island in terms of tech jobs and pay vs most of their continental neighbors. In most other western EU countries wages are even more depressing than the UK if you don't have big-tech companies in your area or a low tax-rate self employment scheme to make remote job opportunities appealing (looking at you Austria).
0xy 4y ago
Except Switzerland, of course. But you are right, salaries in Germany, Sweden and the Netherlands can only be described as an insult to developers. You get screwed royally in Europe, but only screwed half way in Switzerland and the UK. You'll still earn half your US counterparts, and pay more in taxes for the privilege.

dijit 4y ago

I suspect you're a US citizen? In general EU salaries seem very low compared to US ones. (saying EU in general, not that the UK is EU anymore). Its important then to compare to your contemporaries, and to understand quality of life instead of absolute numbers. It's apples to oranges.

willcipriano 4y ago
I'm in the US. I don't really see how my standard of living would go up going from owning my own home to living in a tiny apartment. Different strokes for different folks of course but for me it would be a big drop in standard of living.
- dijit 4y ago
  You don't have to live in a tiny apartment, you can live anywhere you want but you'll have to commute. Public transport being half decent means you don't have to actively drive everywhere freeing up time for yourself, even if you have a long commute. I don't think there's many owning their own houses in NYC or DTLA, it's weird to compare like this.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    > You don't have to live in a tiny apartment, you can live anywhere you want but you'll have to commute. Running the numbers I couldn't afford it. Property is very expensive in the UK. We have a few of her relatives come visit and they kept telling me how big my house is, they kept bringing it up and I thought it was British sarcasm and they were being assholes because my house is less than 1200 sq feet on a third of acre. They were being genuine. My house is one of the smallest in my town, I don't think you can even legally build them this small anymore. > I don't think there's many owning their own houses in NYC or DTLA, it's weird to compare like this. I don't live there for the same reason, I can make more money but it will all go to paying rent for a tiny apartment.
    - swores 4y ago

pledg 4y ago

Moving from where?

bbarn 4y ago

I moved to Iceland, and it's pretty much like you say England is. Half the salary, and worse health care than the US by far. If you factor in taxes, and the portion of my taxes that goes to the health care system (61%) I pay more than I did with excellent health care coverage in my US tech jobs. Inflation is running rampant, further fueled by a post-covid tourism boom, and salaries haven't budged in years.

dzonga 4y ago

for these things you can't just do a currency conversion. you've to adjust both salaries to PPP terms. but yeah roughly a decently paid mid-western techie will have around(~10-20%) the same take home pay as a decently paid uk techie