4 ms·

Why should it stop, as long as nations continue to pose threats to each other and their populations? I support both the US and the EU putting these restrictions

Why should it stop, as long as nations continue to pose threats to each other and their populations? I support both the US and the EU putting these restrictions in place (until such a time when everyone can be trusted, if ever).

hnlmorg 4y ago
Because it's a cyclic argument that only leads to hostilities. Of course I'm not advocating that if we stop collecting data everyone will suddenly play nice. But that doesn't mean it isn't extraordinarily hypocritical to moan about China and the EU placing restrictions on US companies (as is a frequent gripe on HN) while simultaneously placing restrictions on China and EU firms too. We need to learn to find a saner middle ground if we're ever to advance as a species.
- deleted 4y ago
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- DangitBobby 4y ago
  I see very few (zero?) people groaning about data restrictions set by the EU.
  - hnlmorg 4y ago
    That doesn't mean it hasn't happened on threads you haven't seen. Anecdotally I've seen it happen a lot. Which, uncoincidentally, is also the reason why I mentioned it.
    - DangitBobby 4y ago
      I thought you were saying it's a popular or majority opinion, which I don't believe to be the case. Otherwise, why would it be relevant? Edit: I guess we can just see if any research has been done. If you trust this source, Americans seem to support (60% supporting versus 10% against) GDPR style data regulations [1]. 1. https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/americans-say-bring-on-the-data-privacy-regulations https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/americans-say-br...
      - hnlmorg 4y ago
        That's not the same as saying they support the EU's regulations. Just that they'd support America imposing regulations. The issue being discussed here isn't whether people are in favour of privacy but whether they're in favour of international governments imposing restrictions on the way their home-grown corporations operate. I appreciate from a high level the two questions overlap in this specific case study. However it's the framing of the question which really matters here, not the practical overlap.
saiya-jin 4y ago
Well first of all with this approach you will lose a lot of friends like EU (and australia, new zealand, south africa and gazillion more allies). US is not such trusty ally as it thinks it is already (ie all the spying on top european leaders, and thats just tip of iceberg). US needs friends just like everybody else, alone it can project only so much influence. You don't keep friends by screwing them over continuously and having an untrustworthy upper hand over you all the time. And once we're not friends anymore, china may be an attractive alternative, whether you like it or not.
- Cederfjard 4y ago
  I'm in Europe, so I'm writing this as someone who likes our governments protecting people from American (and Chinese) companies. Very happy to be a big happy family again if things improve.

hnlmorg 4y ago

Because it's a cyclic argument that only leads to hostilities. Of course I'm not advocating that if we stop collecting data everyone will suddenly play nice. But that doesn't mean it isn't extraordinarily hypocritical to moan about China and the EU placing restrictions on US companies (as is a frequent gripe on HN) while simultaneously placing restrictions on China and EU firms too. We need to learn to find a saner middle ground if we're ever to advance as a species.

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DangitBobby 4y ago
I see very few (zero?) people groaning about data restrictions set by the EU.
- hnlmorg 4y ago
  That doesn't mean it hasn't happened on threads you haven't seen. Anecdotally I've seen it happen a lot. Which, uncoincidentally, is also the reason why I mentioned it.
  - DangitBobby 4y ago
    I thought you were saying it's a popular or majority opinion, which I don't believe to be the case. Otherwise, why would it be relevant? Edit: I guess we can just see if any research has been done. If you trust this source, Americans seem to support (60% supporting versus 10% against) GDPR style data regulations [1]. 1. https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/americans-say-bring-on-the-data-privacy-regulations https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/americans-say-br...
    - hnlmorg 4y ago
      That's not the same as saying they support the EU's regulations. Just that they'd support America imposing regulations. The issue being discussed here isn't whether people are in favour of privacy but whether they're in favour of international governments imposing restrictions on the way their home-grown corporations operate. I appreciate from a high level the two questions overlap in this specific case study. However it's the framing of the question which really matters here, not the practical overlap.

saiya-jin 4y ago

Well first of all with this approach you will lose a lot of friends like EU (and australia, new zealand, south africa and gazillion more allies). US is not such trusty ally as it thinks it is already (ie all the spying on top european leaders, and thats just tip of iceberg). US needs friends just like everybody else, alone it can project only so much influence. You don't keep friends by screwing them over continuously and having an untrustworthy upper hand over you all the time. And once we're not friends anymore, china may be an attractive alternative, whether you like it or not.

Cederfjard 4y ago
I'm in Europe, so I'm writing this as someone who likes our governments protecting people from American (and Chinese) companies. Very happy to be a big happy family again if things improve.