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We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers We're looking for bare metal developers so basic SPI, I2C, UART knowledge is essent

We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers We're looking for bare metal developers so basic SPI, I2C, UART knowledge is essential, but even in that realm it's surprising how many embedded devs can't work outside of an RTOS and lack basic hardware knowledge

vitno 4y ago
Pay better. It's totally possible that you are paying appropriately, but I've been disappointed with my most recent job search and am likely winding up doing backend work again simply because those roles pay almost double.
- stackbutterflow 4y ago
  They can't. Margins are thinner. Hardware companies have extra costs that software companies don't have. I almost tripled my salary by moving from what the person your replied to is looking for to the web. AND it's easier. AND I can work remotely. I don't blame them. But they'll be more and more desperate to attract people. The democratization of remote web jobs after COVID is another nail in the coffin. They pay less, 99% of the time you have to be in office. It's a losing battle.
  - vitno 4y ago
    This frequently isn't true, although I'll admit it's industry dependent. This is the rhetoric used to depress the wages. Sure, they have extra costs but when you do the math, frequently the wages are still just a drop in the bucket of the operational expenditures.
    - Ancalagon 4y ago
      Agreed, its the same tactic used in healthcare.
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    I think the real issue is that software is way overpriced.
    - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
      Software is underpriced for the value it generates.
      - Workaccount2 4y ago
        So is everything else, you just take it for granted at this point.
- naasking 4y ago
  > It's totally possible that you are paying appropriately Doubtful. If anyone is having a hell of a time finding electrical engineers or embedded developers, then by definition that means the field isn't lucrative enough for people to stay in it. That's exactly the case I've seen repeated in every post in this thread.
lelanthran 4y ago
> We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers I had a hell of a time getting a wage close to watch SWEs make. Hence I am no longer an embedded developer. It's a no-brainer decision.
stinos 4y ago
We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers In my opinion that is essentially almost the same problem, though depending on the university/courses followed. To be able to program bare metal one needs some knowledge of bare metal, which is what an EE has. To be able to program one also needs some programming knowledge, which most EEs have. However if you take a 'standard' software engineer then they often only have a clue about the latter.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  The EE's in both places I studied tended to come out as better low level programmers than the CS grads. Most of the CS grads rarely touched C, and never ASM.
marssaxman 4y ago
I love bare metal work, and part of me would love to go back to it, but it's really hard to justify: hardware product cycles are extremely slow, full-time remote positions are unheard-of, and pay is no more than half of what you can get for much cushier work in the software world. It makes more sense as a hobby than a profession.
Fordec 4y ago
Hi there, I fit your bill. Not interested though because after 9 years of sensor experience software just pays triple my best pay in those years with easier deliverables. Never again.
monocasa 4y ago
Previously the embedded/bare metal software lead for a high availability robotics system for almost a decade. Left that space for backend development because my pay literally tripled. It's easy to think that you're just competing against the other EE job offers of $120k total comp, but you're actually also competing against the software positions those EEs could get with $300k total comp.
kedikedi 4y ago
I think I fit the bill! You can contact me if you want to have a discussion (details in bio)
robocat 4y ago
There must be plenty of 50+ year old EE developers that can do that, probably very cynical neck-beards by now, or even retired. Most people move into better paying roles so it is hard to buy them, and you duck your resume by taking on low-paying work (even if you paid highly, the next gig won’t). There was so much low-level microcontroller dev work in the past, but perhaps that has mostly moved overseas now? I used to do that work and I am not working at present, but I’ve moved up the stack a long way since then, so my pay and working condition expectations are probably ridiculous. And I don’t want to move from New Zealand!
midoridensha 4y ago
I can do that kind of work. I regularly get recruiter emails for these jobs because my resume clearly shows I have experience in it. But the jobs are always some shitty contract job, and located in some stupid place I don't want to live (no remote work possible), and if the salary is given it sucks. So I've been doing higher-level work for a long time now.
c3bkr 4y ago
I've been sending lots of resumes out to companies for embedded jobs since I'm looking for something new. I currently do embedded Linux but my education was EE so hardware isn't mysterious to me. Never-the-less I just get constant rejections, so not sure how desperate these employers are.

vitno 4y ago

Pay better. It's totally possible that you are paying appropriately, but I've been disappointed with my most recent job search and am likely winding up doing backend work again simply because those roles pay almost double.

stackbutterflow 4y ago
They can't. Margins are thinner. Hardware companies have extra costs that software companies don't have. I almost tripled my salary by moving from what the person your replied to is looking for to the web. AND it's easier. AND I can work remotely. I don't blame them. But they'll be more and more desperate to attract people. The democratization of remote web jobs after COVID is another nail in the coffin. They pay less, 99% of the time you have to be in office. It's a losing battle.
- vitno 4y ago
  This frequently isn't true, although I'll admit it's industry dependent. This is the rhetoric used to depress the wages. Sure, they have extra costs but when you do the math, frequently the wages are still just a drop in the bucket of the operational expenditures.
  - Ancalagon 4y ago
    Agreed, its the same tactic used in healthcare.
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  I think the real issue is that software is way overpriced.
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    Software is underpriced for the value it generates.
    - Workaccount2 4y ago
      So is everything else, you just take it for granted at this point.
naasking 4y ago
> It's totally possible that you are paying appropriately Doubtful. If anyone is having a hell of a time finding electrical engineers or embedded developers, then by definition that means the field isn't lucrative enough for people to stay in it. That's exactly the case I've seen repeated in every post in this thread.

lelanthran 4y ago

> We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers I had a hell of a time getting a wage close to watch SWEs make. Hence I am no longer an embedded developer. It's a no-brainer decision.

stinos 4y ago

We are currently having a hell of a time trying to hire embedded developers In my opinion that is essentially almost the same problem, though depending on the university/courses followed. To be able to program bare metal one needs some knowledge of bare metal, which is what an EE has. To be able to program one also needs some programming knowledge, which most EEs have. However if you take a 'standard' software engineer then they often only have a clue about the latter.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
The EE's in both places I studied tended to come out as better low level programmers than the CS grads. Most of the CS grads rarely touched C, and never ASM.

marssaxman 4y ago

I love bare metal work, and part of me would love to go back to it, but it's really hard to justify: hardware product cycles are extremely slow, full-time remote positions are unheard-of, and pay is no more than half of what you can get for much cushier work in the software world. It makes more sense as a hobby than a profession.

Fordec 4y ago

Hi there, I fit your bill. Not interested though because after 9 years of sensor experience software just pays triple my best pay in those years with easier deliverables. Never again.

monocasa 4y ago

Previously the embedded/bare metal software lead for a high availability robotics system for almost a decade. Left that space for backend development because my pay literally tripled. It's easy to think that you're just competing against the other EE job offers of $120k total comp, but you're actually also competing against the software positions those EEs could get with $300k total comp.

kedikedi 4y ago

I think I fit the bill! You can contact me if you want to have a discussion (details in bio)

robocat 4y ago

There must be plenty of 50+ year old EE developers that can do that, probably very cynical neck-beards by now, or even retired. Most people move into better paying roles so it is hard to buy them, and you duck your resume by taking on low-paying work (even if you paid highly, the next gig won’t). There was so much low-level microcontroller dev work in the past, but perhaps that has mostly moved overseas now? I used to do that work and I am not working at present, but I’ve moved up the stack a long way since then, so my pay and working condition expectations are probably ridiculous. And I don’t want to move from New Zealand!

midoridensha 4y ago

I can do that kind of work. I regularly get recruiter emails for these jobs because my resume clearly shows I have experience in it. But the jobs are always some shitty contract job, and located in some stupid place I don't want to live (no remote work possible), and if the salary is given it sucks. So I've been doing higher-level work for a long time now.

c3bkr 4y ago

I've been sending lots of resumes out to companies for embedded jobs since I'm looking for something new. I currently do embedded Linux but my education was EE so hardware isn't mysterious to me. Never-the-less I just get constant rejections, so not sure how desperate these employers are.