5 ms·

Which takes me at why we have to be rivals (we people in countries), because government are rivals and monopolize trading and resources for themselves? It is v

Which takes me at why we have to be rivals (we people in countries), because government are rivals and monopolize trading and resources for themselves? It is very stupid that we passively accept those rules and let them drag us like that into things of this nature. I am really (I am european) pissed off by the fact that someone decided we needed a war with Ukraine when we do not have anything for/against Russia or Ukraine in principle and they start to make pressure to all private business, etc. to make them do what these people want us to do. Literally in Spain I saw even bad press for people selling clothes (Mango) or yoghurts (Danone) just because they kept selling those products to normal Russian people. So govts can sell/send weapons to Ukraine with our taxes and without our permission at the same time they encourage and point to private company doing regular business so that they stop selling there? Seriously? I really do not accept that, I want to have friends from wherever, go with whoever and do business with whom I deem appropriate without asking permission to anyone. If I am not selling intelligence for spying or weapons, what is wrong? I really do not get it.

int0x20 4y ago
- germandiago 4y ago
  I am not for or against russians or ukranians. Think whatever but in a war you are going to see many disgusting things from both sides. It is like that. I declare myself neutral and the last thing I wanted is my country to be involved in this stuff (and others). Of course, at the same time I think that Russian invasion was stupid and a mistake. This is a power game and nothing else. I just want to live normal, not to get into unnecessary trouble. Diplomacy would have been better. And if diplomacy does not work, I do not know why Spain should be further involved. I can understand that countries close such as Latvia, Finland, Poland, etc. take a non-neutral position on this. But Spain? Seriously...
  - jen20 4y ago
    > I am not for or against russians Assuming you are actually German (based on your username), you really shouldn’t require a particularly deep history lesson to understand why Russia is a problem. Jesus fuck man, the brick line runs through the center of your own capital city.
    - narag 4y ago
      Assuming you are actually German... Germán is a name, equivalent to Germain, Armand or Herman.
      - germandiago 4y ago
        Thanks. :) Not from Germany in fact.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > I declare myself neutral Until it is your ass that's on the line I guess?
    - germandiago 4y ago
      Actually I know what you mean, but on the other side of things, thinking that getting involved in absolutely every conflict is a good idea... I do not know, I do not see it as a good solution honestly.
  - RektBoy 4y ago
    If you're Neutral, than you are enemy. Nice. Looks like you didn't learn a thing. GermanSS. (Yes this is a reference to Waffen-SS, if you forgot.)
moomoo11 4y ago
I mean I get your sentiment on one hand. On the other hand, I have people in my family who knew what life is like under European (British) imperialism and being considered sub-human.
XorNot 4y ago
> I really do not accept that, I want to have friends from wherever, go with whoever and do business with whom I deem appropriate without asking permission to anyone. Ask yourself what Ukranian citizens would answer to that question.
- germandiago 4y ago
  I am not talking about that. I agree with you about that. I have a good Ukranian friend also, even I visited his home some months back (in Spain). The topic is why everyone gets involved in things that are far and foreign to them.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    You are arguing that a Ukranian invasion means you should get to continue doing business with Russia freely because how could it affect you? You are arguing you should continue to help fund the war, the weapons, the rapes and murders by Russian forces while they invade Ukraine. You might have dressed it up in pretty prose, but your position is "guess a little genocide is just something we have to live with".
    - germandiago 4y ago
      I mean there are people who know totally normal russian and ukranian citizens like you and I and no government is entitled to put is in a war and after that choose who we can do business with. Russia, Ukraine or whatever country is not a block of people you must be against. It is formed by each of its individuals. If you do not want to do business with them bc you consider it harmful, that is ok. But you cannot force everyone else under your vision. Why should you? With which right you go to make pressure to private business that are just selling clothes or milk-derived products? To me it makes no sense, honestly.
klodolph 4y ago
> I really do not accept that, I want to have friends from wherever, go with whoever and do business with whom I deem appropriate without asking permission to anyone. The reason that systems of economic sanctions exist is to provide alternatives to war. Europe learned some very rough lessons in the 20th century and earlier, leading up to the formation of the EU and before that the formation of the UN. These institutions and other institutions were created by people with memories of large-scale war fresh in their minds.
- germandiago 4y ago
  > The reason that systems of economic sanctions exist is to provide alternatives to war I am not talking about this. I am talking about the fact that it is an oligarchy who chooses whether we go to war or not. I do not think most spanish think that Spain should be involved in a war that is at the other side of Europe where either of those country did anything to us. This is what I mean. These wars respond to oligarchies interests, not to normal citizens interests. I do not know if you get my point. Maybe there are real problems in Ukraine, well there are. But how is that really a reason to involve Spain? Why? Diplomacy, yes, sending weapons no. What if Russia decides we are in a black list later? Were we able to make a choice? Bc this involves our security and our economy and affects normal citizens. So there is necessarily someone interested in this that is not normal, average people like me.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Your beef is with Vladimir Putin, not some nameless "oligarchy." As was pointed out to you, Europe has learned some hard lessons about the consequences of appeasement. The mistakes made in the 1930s must not be repeated with Russia today. If you find this truth to be offensive, tragic, or overly inconvenient, well... so do all who live to see such times, as the guy with the long gray beard said.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    This is how governments behaved in 1930, and bad things happened. If we are going to make mistakes, I hope we make new mistakes, instead of making the same mistakes from 100 years ago.

int0x20 4y ago

germandiago 4y ago
I am not for or against russians or ukranians. Think whatever but in a war you are going to see many disgusting things from both sides. It is like that. I declare myself neutral and the last thing I wanted is my country to be involved in this stuff (and others). Of course, at the same time I think that Russian invasion was stupid and a mistake. This is a power game and nothing else. I just want to live normal, not to get into unnecessary trouble. Diplomacy would have been better. And if diplomacy does not work, I do not know why Spain should be further involved. I can understand that countries close such as Latvia, Finland, Poland, etc. take a non-neutral position on this. But Spain? Seriously...
- jen20 4y ago
  > I am not for or against russians Assuming you are actually German (based on your username), you really shouldn’t require a particularly deep history lesson to understand why Russia is a problem. Jesus fuck man, the brick line runs through the center of your own capital city.
  - narag 4y ago
    Assuming you are actually German... Germán is a name, equivalent to Germain, Armand or Herman.
    - germandiago 4y ago
      Thanks. :) Not from Germany in fact.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > I declare myself neutral Until it is your ass that's on the line I guess?
  - germandiago 4y ago
    Actually I know what you mean, but on the other side of things, thinking that getting involved in absolutely every conflict is a good idea... I do not know, I do not see it as a good solution honestly.
- RektBoy 4y ago
  If you're Neutral, than you are enemy. Nice. Looks like you didn't learn a thing. GermanSS. (Yes this is a reference to Waffen-SS, if you forgot.)

moomoo11 4y ago

I mean I get your sentiment on one hand. On the other hand, I have people in my family who knew what life is like under European (British) imperialism and being considered sub-human.

XorNot 4y ago

> I really do not accept that, I want to have friends from wherever, go with whoever and do business with whom I deem appropriate without asking permission to anyone. Ask yourself what Ukranian citizens would answer to that question.

germandiago 4y ago
I am not talking about that. I agree with you about that. I have a good Ukranian friend also, even I visited his home some months back (in Spain). The topic is why everyone gets involved in things that are far and foreign to them.
- XorNot 4y ago
  You are arguing that a Ukranian invasion means you should get to continue doing business with Russia freely because how could it affect you? You are arguing you should continue to help fund the war, the weapons, the rapes and murders by Russian forces while they invade Ukraine. You might have dressed it up in pretty prose, but your position is "guess a little genocide is just something we have to live with".
  - germandiago 4y ago
    I mean there are people who know totally normal russian and ukranian citizens like you and I and no government is entitled to put is in a war and after that choose who we can do business with. Russia, Ukraine or whatever country is not a block of people you must be against. It is formed by each of its individuals. If you do not want to do business with them bc you consider it harmful, that is ok. But you cannot force everyone else under your vision. Why should you? With which right you go to make pressure to private business that are just selling clothes or milk-derived products? To me it makes no sense, honestly.

klodolph 4y ago

> I really do not accept that, I want to have friends from wherever, go with whoever and do business with whom I deem appropriate without asking permission to anyone. The reason that systems of economic sanctions exist is to provide alternatives to war. Europe learned some very rough lessons in the 20th century and earlier, leading up to the formation of the EU and before that the formation of the UN. These institutions and other institutions were created by people with memories of large-scale war fresh in their minds.

germandiago 4y ago
> The reason that systems of economic sanctions exist is to provide alternatives to war I am not talking about this. I am talking about the fact that it is an oligarchy who chooses whether we go to war or not. I do not think most spanish think that Spain should be involved in a war that is at the other side of Europe where either of those country did anything to us. This is what I mean. These wars respond to oligarchies interests, not to normal citizens interests. I do not know if you get my point. Maybe there are real problems in Ukraine, well there are. But how is that really a reason to involve Spain? Why? Diplomacy, yes, sending weapons no. What if Russia decides we are in a black list later? Were we able to make a choice? Bc this involves our security and our economy and affects normal citizens. So there is necessarily someone interested in this that is not normal, average people like me.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  Your beef is with Vladimir Putin, not some nameless "oligarchy." As was pointed out to you, Europe has learned some hard lessons about the consequences of appeasement. The mistakes made in the 1930s must not be repeated with Russia today. If you find this truth to be offensive, tragic, or overly inconvenient, well... so do all who live to see such times, as the guy with the long gray beard said.
- klodolph 4y ago
  This is how governments behaved in 1930, and bad things happened. If we are going to make mistakes, I hope we make new mistakes, instead of making the same mistakes from 100 years ago.