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David Sinclair wrote in "Lifespan"[1] that scientists were baffled by the longevity of people in France. They investigated regions all around the world where it

David Sinclair wrote in "Lifespan"[1] that scientists were baffled by the longevity of people in France. They investigated regions all around the world where it is more common for people to be centenarians (passing 3-digits age) or supercentenarians (110 years of age). Okinawa? Green and yellow veggies, seaweed, tea, mushrooms. Overall anti-inflammatory and antioxidant-rich diet could explain extended longevity. South Korea? Rice, noodles, tofu, fish, meat and veggies. A lot of fermentation. Barbados? Fish or meat with veggies. Dishes with multiple salads. Portugal? Fish, pastries, veggies and some wine. France? Cheese and wine. Fat and alcohol. Some fish and veggies, too, but with a lot of cheese and wine. If I remember correctly, France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" as they considered high cheese intake to be far from healthy dietary habit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93_and_Why_We_Don't_Have_To https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93...

ameixaseca 4y ago
> France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" Actually, no; it screwed with the preconceived notion that fat and "fatty foods" are automatically unhealthy.
sph 4y ago
France isn't the outlier. In those "pockets" of longevity you've mentioned there actually is a common thread: moderate to little consumption of refined carbohydrates. This is what dietary science got all wrong since the 50s. The problem isn't butter, it's bread with butter. It's not cheese, it's pasta with cheese. Carbohydrates and fats together are bad for you. But guess what, you should eliminate carbs first, not fat. Fat is good, it's energy, it's essential for hormones. Carbs, especially simple or refined ones, are just fuel that either you burn NOW or it's quickly stored during period of famines. With an added feedback loop of wanting to consume more to be better prepared for the winter. Fructose being obesogenic is by design. We know this now, yet we keep hearing the same bullshit around fat is bad, eat another bread roll from pop sci rags. My local shop only sells low fat yogurt and skinless chicken thighs.
- leoedin 4y ago
  But the French love bread. It's served with every meal. They even nationally legislate it's price.
- zemvpferreira 4y ago
  Explain Italian centenarians and their massive pasta consumption in that case. Or Portuguese centenarians and our massive consumption of bread and rice. You could just as well point the blame to refined vegetable oils. There's good evidence to suggest that excess linoleic acid is tremendously harmful to all our tissues. Is all fat the same? There's no point in blaming a single macronutrient. The only truly useful simplifications you can make that apply to the general population are that: A) natural foods are generally better than process foods B) moving around all day is generally better than sitting still C) starting out with the right genes is a pretty good call D) keeping yourself lean until old age (and then a little fatter) is another pretty good call.
  - sph 4y ago
    I'm originally from Italy. The people in Southern Italy that consume massive amounts of pasta have the typical "beer belly" you might have seen on US television. What's absent in Southern Europe in my experience is the big flabby type of obesity. But beer belly is terrible, it means most fat is visceral. A regular Italian diet isn't pasta 3 meals a day, but meat, vegetables, salami, cheese and some pasta and bread. The consumption of salami and cheeses isn't much different than France. In my youth I had both more frequently than spaghetti, and if I did, portions were moderate, and food generally unprocessed. We don't buy macaroni in a can. I do agree on refined and vegetable oils being terrible. I personally avoid any vegetable oil which isn't pressed from fruit pulp, such as olive, avocado or coconut, but prefer animal fats generally. Seed oils are perhaps the worst thing one can ingest.
    - zemvpferreira 4y ago
      "Massive" was hyperbolic from me but it seems like we agree that reducing processed foods from american-level consumption down to something reasonable does a lot more for people than striving to hit zero. That was the point I was clumsily trying to make. I personally reduced my intake of refined carbs and oils as well, but a baguette here and there is well worth the tradeoff and can even be beneficial.
LegitShady 4y ago
What if it's all just bad data and we can't use Okinawa etc because the data is listing very old people who simply aren't there anymore? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071

ameixaseca 4y ago

> France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" Actually, no; it screwed with the preconceived notion that fat and "fatty foods" are automatically unhealthy.

sph 4y ago

France isn't the outlier. In those "pockets" of longevity you've mentioned there actually is a common thread: moderate to little consumption of refined carbohydrates. This is what dietary science got all wrong since the 50s. The problem isn't butter, it's bread with butter. It's not cheese, it's pasta with cheese. Carbohydrates and fats together are bad for you. But guess what, you should eliminate carbs first, not fat. Fat is good, it's energy, it's essential for hormones. Carbs, especially simple or refined ones, are just fuel that either you burn NOW or it's quickly stored during period of famines. With an added feedback loop of wanting to consume more to be better prepared for the winter. Fructose being obesogenic is by design. We know this now, yet we keep hearing the same bullshit around fat is bad, eat another bread roll from pop sci rags. My local shop only sells low fat yogurt and skinless chicken thighs.

leoedin 4y ago
But the French love bread. It's served with every meal. They even nationally legislate it's price.
zemvpferreira 4y ago
Explain Italian centenarians and their massive pasta consumption in that case. Or Portuguese centenarians and our massive consumption of bread and rice. You could just as well point the blame to refined vegetable oils. There's good evidence to suggest that excess linoleic acid is tremendously harmful to all our tissues. Is all fat the same? There's no point in blaming a single macronutrient. The only truly useful simplifications you can make that apply to the general population are that: A) natural foods are generally better than process foods B) moving around all day is generally better than sitting still C) starting out with the right genes is a pretty good call D) keeping yourself lean until old age (and then a little fatter) is another pretty good call.
- sph 4y ago
  I'm originally from Italy. The people in Southern Italy that consume massive amounts of pasta have the typical "beer belly" you might have seen on US television. What's absent in Southern Europe in my experience is the big flabby type of obesity. But beer belly is terrible, it means most fat is visceral. A regular Italian diet isn't pasta 3 meals a day, but meat, vegetables, salami, cheese and some pasta and bread. The consumption of salami and cheeses isn't much different than France. In my youth I had both more frequently than spaghetti, and if I did, portions were moderate, and food generally unprocessed. We don't buy macaroni in a can. I do agree on refined and vegetable oils being terrible. I personally avoid any vegetable oil which isn't pressed from fruit pulp, such as olive, avocado or coconut, but prefer animal fats generally. Seed oils are perhaps the worst thing one can ingest.
  - zemvpferreira 4y ago
    "Massive" was hyperbolic from me but it seems like we agree that reducing processed foods from american-level consumption down to something reasonable does a lot more for people than striving to hit zero. That was the point I was clumsily trying to make. I personally reduced my intake of refined carbs and oils as well, but a baguette here and there is well worth the tradeoff and can even be beneficial.

LegitShady 4y ago

What if it's all just bad data and we can't use Okinawa etc because the data is listing very old people who simply aren't there anymore? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071