7 ms·

Effect of cheese intake on cardiovascular diseases and cardiovascular biomarkers

34 points by voisin 4y ago

lalaland1125 4y ago
The simpler explanation is that cheese is expensive so people who eat it likely have better health anyways due to their wealth
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > that cheese is expensive Not in countries that produce a lot of cheese.
- reedjosh 4y ago
  But cheese is probably healthy anyway. It's milk minus the sugars.
  - perlpimp 4y ago
    Not if you smoke cigarettes and eat cheese with bread(like pizza). I feel such studies are dubious for specific people. Instead understanding of kinetics of мetabolic system probably better way forward. That I don't really remember statistics of science experiments.
    - reedjosh 4y ago
      > ...understanding of kinetics of мetabolic system probably better way forward. Completely agree.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      > мetabolic metabolic What keyboard layout are you using? =]
      - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
        or layout(s), more likely!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hattmall 4y ago
  Cheese isn't necessarily expensive though. Regular block cheese is quite cheap and then you have things like cottage cheese too that are very affordable. The study doesn't say they only look at fancy cheeses.
- MaysonL 4y ago
  I just bought some cheese: 1pound of sharp cheddar for USD 3.65, listed as 1760 calories. Not very expensive.
  - t-3 4y ago
    That's more than most meats and vegetables, definitely on the higher side of groceries. Too expensive to eat a whole bunch with every meal.
    - MaysonL 4y ago
      $4 for a day's worth of calories? How much do you spend on food every day?
    - quantified 4y ago
      What meat are you buying for $3.65 a pound?
      - t-3 4y ago
        That's more expensive than chicken, most pork, ground beef, turkey... Obviously, prices depend on location and where you shop, so they may be different, but this has been my experience across a few states (all in the midwest or southwest, though, so my food is probably cheaper comparatively if you're a coastie).
        quantified 4y ago
        Yes, I'm coastal for now and meats are more expensive than basic cheeses, may be reflected in how I shop. Good cheeses, more expensive than meats, but oh boy are they tasty. A nice mimolette or tomme...
        MaysonL 4y ago
        How many calories in a pound of chicken, pork, or beef?
- j7ake 4y ago
  Cheese is a common inexpensive staple in Europe. You’re overpaying for cheese.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    Or buying the wrong cheese. Some cheese can be quite spendy.
    - quantified 4y ago
      Or both, overpaying for crap. But this is America, and only the people who travel outside of it learn how food and other things are treated better elsewhere.
      - j7ake 4y ago
        One should show to Asians how much some of these American versions of tofu are being sold at high end supermarkets like whole foods. Tofu is a poor mans food (a bit like Asian milk free version of cheese), but companies have repackaged it to Americans as fancy.
        quantified 4y ago
        What could be fancier than blocks of fermented soy that generally all taste the same (not that much taste is there)?
29athrowaway 4y ago
Some of the "cheese" sold in the US is "cheese product", which is non-cheese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processed_cheese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processed_cheese
- missedthecue 4y ago
  "Processed cheese is a food product made from cheese and unfermented dairy ingredients"
  - freeflight 4y ago
    "The FDA does not maintain a standard of identity for either "pasteurized prepared cheese product", a designation which particularly appears on many Kraft products, or "pasteurized process cheese product", a designation which appears particularly on many American store- and generic-branded singles. Products labeled as such may use milk protein concentrate (MPC) in the formulation, which is not listed in the permitted optional dairy ingredients. The desire to use inexpensive imported milk protein concentrate is noted as motivation for the introduction of these and similar terms, and for the relabeling of some products." "After an FDA Warning Letter protesting Kraft's use of MPC in late 2002,some varieties of Kraft Singles formerly labeled "pasteurized process cheese food" became "pasteurized prepared cheese product", Velveeta was relabeled from "pasteurized process cheese spread" to "pasteurized prepared cheese product", and Easy Cheese from "pasteurized process cheese spread" to "pasteurized cheese snack"." Or; "What Is American Cheese? Well, as you might have guessed, it's not actually cheese—at least, not legally. The FDA calls it “pasteurized processed American cheese food.” In order for a food product to be a true “cheese,” it has to be more than half cheese, which is technically pressed curds of milk." https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-american-cheese-is-american-real-cheese/ https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-american-cheese-...
DoreenMichele 4y ago
The better prognosis associated with cheese intake may be explained by lower body mass index (BMI; effect estimate = −0.58; 95% CI, from −0.88 to −0.27; p = 0.0002), waist circumference (effect estimate = −0.49; 95% CI, from −0.76 to −0.23; p = 0.0003), triglycerides (effect estimate = −0.33; 95% CI, from −0.50 to −0.17; p = 4.91 × 10−5), and fasting glucose (effect estimate = −0.20; 95% CI, from −0.33 to −0.07; p = 0.0003). I will toss out the idea that cheese is a source of good quality salt as well, fwiw.
hericium 4y ago
David Sinclair wrote in "Lifespan"[1] that scientists were baffled by the longevity of people in France. They investigated regions all around the world where it is more common for people to be centenarians (passing 3-digits age) or supercentenarians (110 years of age). Okinawa? Green and yellow veggies, seaweed, tea, mushrooms. Overall anti-inflammatory and antioxidant-rich diet could explain extended longevity. South Korea? Rice, noodles, tofu, fish, meat and veggies. A lot of fermentation. Barbados? Fish or meat with veggies. Dishes with multiple salads. Portugal? Fish, pastries, veggies and some wine. France? Cheese and wine. Fat and alcohol. Some fish and veggies, too, but with a lot of cheese and wine. If I remember correctly, France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" as they considered high cheese intake to be far from healthy dietary habit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93_and_Why_We_Don't_Have_To https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93...
- ameixaseca 4y ago
  > France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" Actually, no; it screwed with the preconceived notion that fat and "fatty foods" are automatically unhealthy.
- sph 4y ago
  France isn't the outlier. In those "pockets" of longevity you've mentioned there actually is a common thread: moderate to little consumption of refined carbohydrates. This is what dietary science got all wrong since the 50s. The problem isn't butter, it's bread with butter. It's not cheese, it's pasta with cheese. Carbohydrates and fats together are bad for you. But guess what, you should eliminate carbs first, not fat. Fat is good, it's energy, it's essential for hormones. Carbs, especially simple or refined ones, are just fuel that either you burn NOW or it's quickly stored during period of famines. With an added feedback loop of wanting to consume more to be better prepared for the winter. Fructose being obesogenic is by design. We know this now, yet we keep hearing the same bullshit around fat is bad, eat another bread roll from pop sci rags. My local shop only sells low fat yogurt and skinless chicken thighs.
  - 4y ago
ncmncm 4y ago
This is very exciting! (Speaking as a good customer of Trader Joe's "Grana Padano" Parmesano Reggiano and Kerrygold cheddar.) But the list of illnesses cheese seems to protect against appears to match complications from fatty-liver disease, AKA metabolic syndrome, which is apparently caused by excess ingestion of fructose and/or alcohol, and prevalent in the UK and all its former colonies. It is as if the cheese is protecting people against absorption of dietary fructose. Or alcohol? As I understand it, intestinal bacteria are well equipped to neutralize fructose, provided absorption is delayed long enough to give them a crack at it. How cheese would aid this is a mystery.
- Youden 4y ago
  So you know, Grana Padano isn't a kind of Parmigiano-Reggiano, it's a similar but different kind of cheese. A quick Google shows that Trader joes markets it as "Grana Padano Parmesan" so I don't blame you for the confusion. If you really enjoy it, I'd recommend trying to get your hands on DOP Parmigiano-Reggiano and Grana Padano and comparing the two to taste the difference. IMO, Parmigiano-Reggiano is absolutely the best cheese to put on top of things, but I'm in Europe where it costs next to nothing, even DOP.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    You get them in almost all aromatic qualities in France and Italy. Touched a pinch of one of the strongest hard cheeses I could find there. Tasted extremely strong but awesome. Still, I scrubbed, showered and bathed but it did not matter. My hand smelled of cheese for two days straight. And this was a hard cheese, imagine what its softer brothers could do.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    The way I had understood it was that regular Reggiano was aged 2 years, Grana Padano 3, and Stravecchio 4. It appears I have been mistaken. Checking, it says 18 months...
    - Youden 4y ago
      The difference isn't just age. Grana Padano and Parmigiano-Reggiano are different cheeses, just like Camembert and Brie are different cheeses. Since they're both PDO, you can read the detailed requirements [0,1]. The differences are primarily the regions where they're produced and how the milk is processed. Stravecchio is just an adjective that means "old" or "mature" [2] and can be applied to any kind of cheese, wine, or whatever. [0]: https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/3bb2ed0dbce70d6851a111b1a8bd43ab/1d0c8e670c96c56f898e93203342681d.pdf https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/3bb2ed0dbce70d6851... [1]: https://www.granapadano.it/public/file/Production-Specification-RulesNov12-38345.pdf https://www.granapadano.it/public/file/Production-Specificat... [2]: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/italian-english/stravecchio https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/italian-english/...
notacoward 4y ago
Possibly relevant: they mention "suggestive evidence" of a positive association between cheese intake and high-density lipoprotein. As it happens, I'm an avid cheese eater (especially anything in the gouda family) and also supplement with tyrosine (those crystals you find in some aged cheeses). And I have what my doctor described as "freakishly high" HDL levels, in what is otherwise a pretty boring set of blood-test numbers and a pretty typical (i.e. crappy) American diet. It really kind of stands out, begging explanation. Maybe it's nothing, or maybe there's something to this cheese/HDL thing.
a1371 4y ago
I am trying to find how they define "cheese" in this study and I can't seem to find it. They talk about high saturated fat content but that's not a defining feature of cheese. For example, cottage cheese can have low to no fat and it's still "cheese". The cheddar slices they put on hamburgers is mostly vegetable oil, but that too is considered cheese.

34 points by voisin 4y ago

The simpler explanation is that cheese is expensive so people who eat it likely have better health anyways due to their wealth

ekianjo 4y ago
> that cheese is expensive Not in countries that produce a lot of cheese.
reedjosh 4y ago
But cheese is probably healthy anyway. It's milk minus the sugars.
- perlpimp 4y ago
  Not if you smoke cigarettes and eat cheese with bread(like pizza). I feel such studies are dubious for specific people. Instead understanding of kinetics of мetabolic system probably better way forward. That I don't really remember statistics of science experiments.
  - reedjosh 4y ago
    > ...understanding of kinetics of мetabolic system probably better way forward. Completely agree.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    > мetabolic metabolic What keyboard layout are you using? =]
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      or layout(s), more likely!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hattmall 4y ago
Cheese isn't necessarily expensive though. Regular block cheese is quite cheap and then you have things like cottage cheese too that are very affordable. The study doesn't say they only look at fancy cheeses.
MaysonL 4y ago
I just bought some cheese: 1pound of sharp cheddar for USD 3.65, listed as 1760 calories. Not very expensive.
- t-3 4y ago
  That's more than most meats and vegetables, definitely on the higher side of groceries. Too expensive to eat a whole bunch with every meal.
  - MaysonL 4y ago
    $4 for a day's worth of calories? How much do you spend on food every day?
  - quantified 4y ago
    What meat are you buying for $3.65 a pound?
    - t-3 4y ago
      That's more expensive than chicken, most pork, ground beef, turkey... Obviously, prices depend on location and where you shop, so they may be different, but this has been my experience across a few states (all in the midwest or southwest, though, so my food is probably cheaper comparatively if you're a coastie).
      - quantified 4y ago
        Yes, I'm coastal for now and meats are more expensive than basic cheeses, may be reflected in how I shop. Good cheeses, more expensive than meats, but oh boy are they tasty. A nice mimolette or tomme...
      - MaysonL 4y ago
        How many calories in a pound of chicken, pork, or beef?
j7ake 4y ago
Cheese is a common inexpensive staple in Europe. You’re overpaying for cheese.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  Or buying the wrong cheese. Some cheese can be quite spendy.
  - quantified 4y ago
    Or both, overpaying for crap. But this is America, and only the people who travel outside of it learn how food and other things are treated better elsewhere.
    - j7ake 4y ago
      One should show to Asians how much some of these American versions of tofu are being sold at high end supermarkets like whole foods. Tofu is a poor mans food (a bit like Asian milk free version of cheese), but companies have repackaged it to Americans as fancy.
      - quantified 4y ago
        What could be fancier than blocks of fermented soy that generally all taste the same (not that much taste is there)?

29athrowaway 4y ago

Some of the "cheese" sold in the US is "cheese product", which is non-cheese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processed_cheese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processed_cheese

missedthecue 4y ago
"Processed cheese is a food product made from cheese and unfermented dairy ingredients"
- freeflight 4y ago
  "The FDA does not maintain a standard of identity for either "pasteurized prepared cheese product", a designation which particularly appears on many Kraft products, or "pasteurized process cheese product", a designation which appears particularly on many American store- and generic-branded singles. Products labeled as such may use milk protein concentrate (MPC) in the formulation, which is not listed in the permitted optional dairy ingredients. The desire to use inexpensive imported milk protein concentrate is noted as motivation for the introduction of these and similar terms, and for the relabeling of some products." "After an FDA Warning Letter protesting Kraft's use of MPC in late 2002,some varieties of Kraft Singles formerly labeled "pasteurized process cheese food" became "pasteurized prepared cheese product", Velveeta was relabeled from "pasteurized process cheese spread" to "pasteurized prepared cheese product", and Easy Cheese from "pasteurized process cheese spread" to "pasteurized cheese snack"." Or; "What Is American Cheese? Well, as you might have guessed, it's not actually cheese—at least, not legally. The FDA calls it “pasteurized processed American cheese food.” In order for a food product to be a true “cheese,” it has to be more than half cheese, which is technically pressed curds of milk." https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-american-cheese-is-american-real-cheese/ https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-american-cheese-...

DoreenMichele 4y ago

The better prognosis associated with cheese intake may be explained by lower body mass index (BMI; effect estimate = −0.58; 95% CI, from −0.88 to −0.27; p = 0.0002), waist circumference (effect estimate = −0.49; 95% CI, from −0.76 to −0.23; p = 0.0003), triglycerides (effect estimate = −0.33; 95% CI, from −0.50 to −0.17; p = 4.91 × 10−5), and fasting glucose (effect estimate = −0.20; 95% CI, from −0.33 to −0.07; p = 0.0003). I will toss out the idea that cheese is a source of good quality salt as well, fwiw.

hericium 4y ago

David Sinclair wrote in "Lifespan"[1] that scientists were baffled by the longevity of people in France. They investigated regions all around the world where it is more common for people to be centenarians (passing 3-digits age) or supercentenarians (110 years of age). Okinawa? Green and yellow veggies, seaweed, tea, mushrooms. Overall anti-inflammatory and antioxidant-rich diet could explain extended longevity. South Korea? Rice, noodles, tofu, fish, meat and veggies. A lot of fermentation. Barbados? Fish or meat with veggies. Dishes with multiple salads. Portugal? Fish, pastries, veggies and some wine. France? Cheese and wine. Fat and alcohol. Some fish and veggies, too, but with a lot of cheese and wine. If I remember correctly, France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" as they considered high cheese intake to be far from healthy dietary habit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93_and_Why_We_Don't_Have_To https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93...

ameixaseca 4y ago
> France kind of screwed up their idea of "healthy diet is crucial to longevity" Actually, no; it screwed with the preconceived notion that fat and "fatty foods" are automatically unhealthy.
sph 4y ago
France isn't the outlier. In those "pockets" of longevity you've mentioned there actually is a common thread: moderate to little consumption of refined carbohydrates. This is what dietary science got all wrong since the 50s. The problem isn't butter, it's bread with butter. It's not cheese, it's pasta with cheese. Carbohydrates and fats together are bad for you. But guess what, you should eliminate carbs first, not fat. Fat is good, it's energy, it's essential for hormones. Carbs, especially simple or refined ones, are just fuel that either you burn NOW or it's quickly stored during period of famines. With an added feedback loop of wanting to consume more to be better prepared for the winter. Fructose being obesogenic is by design. We know this now, yet we keep hearing the same bullshit around fat is bad, eat another bread roll from pop sci rags. My local shop only sells low fat yogurt and skinless chicken thighs.
- 4y ago

ncmncm 4y ago

This is very exciting! (Speaking as a good customer of Trader Joe's "Grana Padano" Parmesano Reggiano and Kerrygold cheddar.) But the list of illnesses cheese seems to protect against appears to match complications from fatty-liver disease, AKA metabolic syndrome, which is apparently caused by excess ingestion of fructose and/or alcohol, and prevalent in the UK and all its former colonies. It is as if the cheese is protecting people against absorption of dietary fructose. Or alcohol? As I understand it, intestinal bacteria are well equipped to neutralize fructose, provided absorption is delayed long enough to give them a crack at it. How cheese would aid this is a mystery.

Youden 4y ago
So you know, Grana Padano isn't a kind of Parmigiano-Reggiano, it's a similar but different kind of cheese. A quick Google shows that Trader joes markets it as "Grana Padano Parmesan" so I don't blame you for the confusion. If you really enjoy it, I'd recommend trying to get your hands on DOP Parmigiano-Reggiano and Grana Padano and comparing the two to taste the difference. IMO, Parmigiano-Reggiano is absolutely the best cheese to put on top of things, but I'm in Europe where it costs next to nothing, even DOP.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  You get them in almost all aromatic qualities in France and Italy. Touched a pinch of one of the strongest hard cheeses I could find there. Tasted extremely strong but awesome. Still, I scrubbed, showered and bathed but it did not matter. My hand smelled of cheese for two days straight. And this was a hard cheese, imagine what its softer brothers could do.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  The way I had understood it was that regular Reggiano was aged 2 years, Grana Padano 3, and Stravecchio 4. It appears I have been mistaken. Checking, it says 18 months...
  - Youden 4y ago
    The difference isn't just age. Grana Padano and Parmigiano-Reggiano are different cheeses, just like Camembert and Brie are different cheeses. Since they're both PDO, you can read the detailed requirements [0,1]. The differences are primarily the regions where they're produced and how the milk is processed. Stravecchio is just an adjective that means "old" or "mature" [2] and can be applied to any kind of cheese, wine, or whatever. [0]: https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/3bb2ed0dbce70d6851a111b1a8bd43ab/1d0c8e670c96c56f898e93203342681d.pdf https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/static/3bb2ed0dbce70d6851... [1]: https://www.granapadano.it/public/file/Production-Specification-RulesNov12-38345.pdf https://www.granapadano.it/public/file/Production-Specificat... [2]: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/italian-english/stravecchio https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/italian-english/...

notacoward 4y ago

Possibly relevant: they mention "suggestive evidence" of a positive association between cheese intake and high-density lipoprotein. As it happens, I'm an avid cheese eater (especially anything in the gouda family) and also supplement with tyrosine (those crystals you find in some aged cheeses). And I have what my doctor described as "freakishly high" HDL levels, in what is otherwise a pretty boring set of blood-test numbers and a pretty typical (i.e. crappy) American diet. It really kind of stands out, begging explanation. Maybe it's nothing, or maybe there's something to this cheese/HDL thing.

a1371 4y ago

I am trying to find how they define "cheese" in this study and I can't seem to find it. They talk about high saturated fat content but that's not a defining feature of cheese. For example, cottage cheese can have low to no fat and it's still "cheese". The cheddar slices they put on hamburgers is mostly vegetable oil, but that too is considered cheese.