5 ms·

Low water stage marks on hunger stones (2020)

74 points by jdkee 4y ago

wyattpeak 4y ago
For anyone as confused as me, from Wikipedia: > [Hunger] stones were embedded into a river during droughts to mark the water level as a warning to future generations that they will have to endure famine-related hardships if the water sinks to this level again.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  I think there is a similar concept in Japan about marking the high point of Tsunamis as a warning for future generations.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  "If you see me, weep"
mofosyne 4y ago
This reminds me of these concepts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longtermism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longtermism Longtermism is an ethical stance which gives priority to improving the long-term future. It is an important concept in effective altruism and serves as a primary motivation for efforts to reduce existential risks to humanity. since the villagers is essentially trying to communicate over long period of times critical information that would essentially be of no use to them in their lifetimes, but would save lives many years down the track.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  There's a huge difference between "communicates with" as in the article and "gives priority to" in longtermism. The latter justifies all kinds of horrors in the present because they could lead to future prosperity.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
    >The latter justifies all kinds of horrors in the present Did you mean frugality?
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      was thinking more like colonialism but austerity measures also do apply so sure.
      - rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
        >colonialism How?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
winReInstall 4y ago
What would it take to increase the likelihood of rain synthetically? I know many are adverse to geo-engineering, but lets say i can predict the winds for the next days, i have a ocean, i have solar and ultrasonic humidifier , wouldnt it be feasable to basically create dense fog - cloud coverage from nothing that is then carried inlands were it rains down near mountain ranges? You take one of the armies floating solar arrays, add the humidifiers and voila ready is a terra forming experiment never tried before.
- makerofspoons 4y ago
  The University of Colorado has a research group that has been working on evaluating the efficacy of cloud seeding to increase winter snowpack in mountains. Here's one of their papers: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1917204117 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1917204117
- saalweachter 4y ago
  So your BATNA here is going to be irrigation canals. Can you make rain cheaper than you can dig, maintain and fill irrigation canals? Amortized over X years?
- pyrale 4y ago
  > What would it take to increase the likelihood of rain synthetically? At this point, the issue isn't just likelihood of rain, but a cataclysmic shift in climate conditions, which we knowingly cause, and against which we don't want to act. It's not simply about favoring long term over short term, our society has effectively become a death cult, even on the short term.
  - blueflow 4y ago
    You know, people already live in Australia and they don't die from it. We are gonna survive climate change.
    - conanite 4y ago
      Just curious, Australia being mostly desert, if the rest of the planet became similarly barren, would it still work out? I don't know how food-independent Australia is...
kkfx 4y ago
There is an issue in such approach: people do not see them except during a drought so... Not very useful. The real issue is that domestically we can store water if we live at a not that high density. We can collect even 50-100m³ underground per home, out of rain water on the roof, make it drinkable with sand filters + Cl, potentially a not so cheap home can store enough water for its residents on yearly basis. Agriculture can't. Industry can't. We actually need to eat, so we need agriculture (also to farm animals, since they also eat), and since we do not build anything forever and ever and we evolve we need industry.

74 points by jdkee 4y ago

For anyone as confused as me, from Wikipedia: > [Hunger] stones were embedded into a river during droughts to mark the water level as a warning to future generations that they will have to endure famine-related hardships if the water sinks to this level again.

mytailorisrich 4y ago
I think there is a similar concept in Japan about marking the high point of Tsunamis as a warning for future generations.
MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
"If you see me, weep"

mofosyne 4y ago

This reminds me of these concepts - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longtermism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longtermism Longtermism is an ethical stance which gives priority to improving the long-term future. It is an important concept in effective altruism and serves as a primary motivation for efforts to reduce existential risks to humanity. since the villagers is essentially trying to communicate over long period of times critical information that would essentially be of no use to them in their lifetimes, but would save lives many years down the track.

giraffe_lady 4y ago
There's a huge difference between "communicates with" as in the article and "gives priority to" in longtermism. The latter justifies all kinds of horrors in the present because they could lead to future prosperity.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
  >The latter justifies all kinds of horrors in the present Did you mean frugality?
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    was thinking more like colonialism but austerity measures also do apply so sure.
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
      >colonialism How?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

winReInstall 4y ago

What would it take to increase the likelihood of rain synthetically? I know many are adverse to geo-engineering, but lets say i can predict the winds for the next days, i have a ocean, i have solar and ultrasonic humidifier , wouldnt it be feasable to basically create dense fog - cloud coverage from nothing that is then carried inlands were it rains down near mountain ranges? You take one of the armies floating solar arrays, add the humidifiers and voila ready is a terra forming experiment never tried before.

makerofspoons 4y ago
The University of Colorado has a research group that has been working on evaluating the efficacy of cloud seeding to increase winter snowpack in mountains. Here's one of their papers: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1917204117 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1917204117
saalweachter 4y ago
So your BATNA here is going to be irrigation canals. Can you make rain cheaper than you can dig, maintain and fill irrigation canals? Amortized over X years?
pyrale 4y ago
> What would it take to increase the likelihood of rain synthetically? At this point, the issue isn't just likelihood of rain, but a cataclysmic shift in climate conditions, which we knowingly cause, and against which we don't want to act. It's not simply about favoring long term over short term, our society has effectively become a death cult, even on the short term.
- blueflow 4y ago
  You know, people already live in Australia and they don't die from it. We are gonna survive climate change.
  - conanite 4y ago
    Just curious, Australia being mostly desert, if the rest of the planet became similarly barren, would it still work out? I don't know how food-independent Australia is...

kkfx 4y ago

There is an issue in such approach: people do not see them except during a drought so... Not very useful. The real issue is that domestically we can store water if we live at a not that high density. We can collect even 50-100m³ underground per home, out of rain water on the roof, make it drinkable with sand filters + Cl, potentially a not so cheap home can store enough water for its residents on yearly basis. Agriculture can't. Industry can't. We actually need to eat, so we need agriculture (also to farm animals, since they also eat), and since we do not build anything forever and ever and we evolve we need industry.