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No one cares. This kind of surveillance and massive overreach by intelligence agencies has been reported dozens of times for at least 20 years now. The most re

No one cares. This kind of surveillance and massive overreach by intelligence agencies has been reported dozens of times for at least 20 years now. The most recent example i remember was of facial recognition in airports. Media reported it, some people whined about it, oh maybe the people will demand privacy? lol. Now its standard procedure. Delta even does boarding based on facial ID by default. "Raising awareness" does nothing. Commenting on online forums does nothing. The government is in control in every way, of the markets and hence jobs/unemployment, of privacy and surveillance. We've all become excellent at reporting and following bad news even while being completely incapable of effecting any change. The median person is too poor or dumb or disempowered for this to even crack the top 10 issues. They're complaining about gas prices and rent instead. We choose between 2 geriatric clowns who can't possibly keep up with what 100,0000 government employees are doing every 4 years and a congress that can't pass a law to save its life. Democracy is working super well lol.

hunterb123 4y ago
Please don't speak for everyone. I care. Many people care. You may feel as though the median person is too poor or dumb or disempowered, and that may disempower you, but there are many other people who tirelessly work against these types of overreaches, whether its' FOIA requests, campaigns, articles, or otherwise. I see no point in such a post, it drifted into some sort of anti-democracy rant.
- user3939382 4y ago
  I feel that the entire machinery of the government at the state and Federal levels is so thoroughly captured and corrupt that its levers can now never be used to cleanse itself. The American people have/had rights they didn’t have to sacrifice to get, but which are valuable to a very determined and well-organized group of people, and so they are and will evaporate. The average American has never even heard of Snowden.
- zaptheimpaler 4y ago
  Sorry about the drift into a rant. My point is to say that the standard playbook for creating social or policy change is broken. The playbook is roughly - 1. build awareness via a nice article like the link 2. people read it? 3. people do something about it? But very few people read. The actual issues in broad public awareness are whatever crap is on Fox news. Beyond that, even if people get mad they have no structured way to demand a change and it rarely happens. The rant is tangentially related because we still haven't seen any action on the Uvalde PD, abortion laws just got revoked, there is a war in Ukraine, we might soon be in a recession, the climate might kill us all, etc etc. These are issues where the public actually cares, but nothing seems to change. Surveillance is not even on the list with all the other fires burning. I guess I'm just saying "caring" about an issue is meaningless in the absence of the power to effect any change. We dont even have the basic ability to ask a government official a question and get a straight answer. We don't seem to have any common knowledge or consensus on how to demand accountability from the government. These are much deeper issues that have to somehow be addressed before anything happens.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    Most of those issues either are caused by the usual people that have been in power in congress, or aren't issues that Americans should even care about but have convinced to be (Ukraine) as to keep money spigots flowing. Vote out the establishment in the senate and the house if you really want change. Rule of thumb if they've been there for 50 years they're okay with the status quo, regardless of party.
bradgessler 4y ago
Anybody want to take a shot at how all of this will unwind?
- rsyring 4y ago
  It won't. Technology brings too much power with relative ease, governments and corporations are and will use it to their own advantage. Most people want convenience above all things and, even if they don't, are relatively powerless to do anything about it anyway. New governments may rise and current ones fall. Ditto large corporations. Any progress made in the pursuit of privacy will be mostly smoke and mirrors. The incentives are just too misaligned.
  - bradgessler 4y ago
    I have this half-baked thought that fighting surveillance to get rid of it probably isn’t the answer. Like most technologies, it can be used for good and bad. What probably needs to happen are laws and regulations for how that data can be used against you, particularly by organizations that have a monopoly on violence. Sadly that would upend the way most institutions work with information, so I’m not optimistic it would actually work in practice.
- fsflover 4y ago
  Good technology can be developed to fight surveillance in a reasonably convenient way. With time, it can attract enough people to make a change. See: https://qubes-os.org https://qubes-os.org. In addition, turning surveillance against the government could also be beneficial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance.
walrus01 4y ago
Fifteen years before Snowden, people were writing books about the NSA, GCHQ and the ECHELON system and apparently nobody gave a fuck, except some niche of politically interested or infosec people.
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hunterb123 4y ago

Please don't speak for everyone. I care. Many people care. You may feel as though the median person is too poor or dumb or disempowered, and that may disempower you, but there are many other people who tirelessly work against these types of overreaches, whether its' FOIA requests, campaigns, articles, or otherwise. I see no point in such a post, it drifted into some sort of anti-democracy rant.

user3939382 4y ago
I feel that the entire machinery of the government at the state and Federal levels is so thoroughly captured and corrupt that its levers can now never be used to cleanse itself. The American people have/had rights they didn’t have to sacrifice to get, but which are valuable to a very determined and well-organized group of people, and so they are and will evaporate. The average American has never even heard of Snowden.
zaptheimpaler 4y ago
Sorry about the drift into a rant. My point is to say that the standard playbook for creating social or policy change is broken. The playbook is roughly - 1. build awareness via a nice article like the link 2. people read it? 3. people do something about it? But very few people read. The actual issues in broad public awareness are whatever crap is on Fox news. Beyond that, even if people get mad they have no structured way to demand a change and it rarely happens. The rant is tangentially related because we still haven't seen any action on the Uvalde PD, abortion laws just got revoked, there is a war in Ukraine, we might soon be in a recession, the climate might kill us all, etc etc. These are issues where the public actually cares, but nothing seems to change. Surveillance is not even on the list with all the other fires burning. I guess I'm just saying "caring" about an issue is meaningless in the absence of the power to effect any change. We dont even have the basic ability to ask a government official a question and get a straight answer. We don't seem to have any common knowledge or consensus on how to demand accountability from the government. These are much deeper issues that have to somehow be addressed before anything happens.
- hunterb123 4y ago
  Most of those issues either are caused by the usual people that have been in power in congress, or aren't issues that Americans should even care about but have convinced to be (Ukraine) as to keep money spigots flowing. Vote out the establishment in the senate and the house if you really want change. Rule of thumb if they've been there for 50 years they're okay with the status quo, regardless of party.

bradgessler 4y ago

Anybody want to take a shot at how all of this will unwind?

rsyring 4y ago
It won't. Technology brings too much power with relative ease, governments and corporations are and will use it to their own advantage. Most people want convenience above all things and, even if they don't, are relatively powerless to do anything about it anyway. New governments may rise and current ones fall. Ditto large corporations. Any progress made in the pursuit of privacy will be mostly smoke and mirrors. The incentives are just too misaligned.
- bradgessler 4y ago
  I have this half-baked thought that fighting surveillance to get rid of it probably isn’t the answer. Like most technologies, it can be used for good and bad. What probably needs to happen are laws and regulations for how that data can be used against you, particularly by organizations that have a monopoly on violence. Sadly that would upend the way most institutions work with information, so I’m not optimistic it would actually work in practice.
fsflover 4y ago
Good technology can be developed to fight surveillance in a reasonably convenient way. With time, it can attract enough people to make a change. See: https://qubes-os.org https://qubes-os.org. In addition, turning surveillance against the government could also be beneficial: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sousveillance.

walrus01 4y ago

Fifteen years before Snowden, people were writing books about the NSA, GCHQ and the ECHELON system and apparently nobody gave a fuck, except some niche of politically interested or infosec people.

deleted 4y ago

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deleted 4y ago
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