9 ms·

Reckoning with the history of racial marketing of menthol cigarettes

20 points by prismatic 4y ago

shmde 4y ago
Similar Marlboro trying to market cigarettes to women so that they could be equal to men.
klyrs 4y ago
Watching characters smoking on film often gives me cravings, but just seeing the words "menthol cigarettes" makes me want to run out and grab a pack. Thankfully, they're banned in Canada so it would be a long drive for me today. I'm not black, but most of the kids in my neighborhood were, and these ads certainly impacted us. The article doesn't really dig into what's so bad about menthol. It makes the smoke feel cool, which provides sensory relief. But it's like drinking alcohol to feel warm -- it increases an individual's mental tolerance without doing a damned thing physically. It even seems to make the cigarettes more addictive, which strongly resonates with me, probably because they diminish the body's "stop that, it hurts" response. Clove cigarettes have a similarly numbing sensation (and delicious flavor). As a teen I couldn't understand why those were banned in some places... now I only wonder why menthols didn't get the axe when other flavors were banned in the US, though I've always harbored a suspicion about the brand of Obama's guilty pleasure.
- toomanybeersies 4y ago
  I have the opposite feelings about menthols; I can't stand them. Whenever I smoke a menthol I feel like I'm smoking a toothbrush. I'm a full time smoker, but I'll turn down a menthol if offered one. I'd rather suffer through nicotine cravings than subject myself to a Colgate coffin nail.
CoastalCoder 4y ago
I think I'm missing something, could someone clarify? I think trying to persuade anyone to start smoking is evil. But society is generally accepting of marketing that's tailored to different demographics, including race. So what's especially noteworthy about marketing cigarettes differently to black people vs. others? AFAIK, regardless of race, the tobacco companies wanted to maximize their profits at the cost of their customers' lives.
- quattrofan 4y ago
- jrm4 4y ago
  Good point. This is the sort of thing that should make us all go a bit deeper on this: Perhaps it is marketing that is fundamentally evil. Why should we be accepting of an entire industry dedicated solely to trying to convince people to buy things they literally do not need?
  - kqr 4y ago
    Someone in marketing would tell you that they aren't trying to convince people to buy things they don't need (that's an expensive way to pay for customers to abandon your product, generally) but that they are helping people understand that the problem they've had for a long time is solved by a product.
    - pseudo0 4y ago
      Unfortunately step one of that process is often convincing people that they have a problem, sometimes through questionable methods. It's easy to make a teenaged girl feel like her appearance is a problem when the basis for comparison is a photoshopped Instagram model, for example. Inducing demand for a product like that does not seem very beneficial for society.
  - Thorrez 4y ago
    Cigarettes harm people. Is that the case for most products? Certainly not to the same degree, but I wonder to what degree buying different types of products helps vs harms people. What we truly need to live is very little. What we want tends to be much more. Jesus said that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. To what degree is our materialistic society harming us?
  - Gustomaximus 4y ago
    People do needs things. And people do want choice and information. Marketing is no more evil than programming or any role. All roles have people use it detrimentally and unethically. I'm a marketer and only once felt less ethical in my role (pushing credit cards for a bank group) but most of the time is good work, promoting decent products to people as an alternate to the popular choice, which in itself drives competition and product improvement. While I would personally love to see better ad regulation in the world to do thinks like reduce billboards and tracking etc I still think it clear the world would be a worse place if companies were not allowed to promote their product.
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
By this logic, preferential marketing of home mortgages or diamonds to light skinned people is a form of racism, given that quite often a fool and his money are soon parted. Menthol cigarettes should not be banned or entirely excluded from advertisements. They should certainly be discouraged, especially among young people. At the same time, adults of any race should not be infantilized as not deserving of making their own decisions.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  > preferential marketing of home mortgages or diamonds to light skinned people is a form of racism Yes, addictive cancer sticks must be exactly the same thing as selling people houses.
- smt88 4y ago
  This is about the history of marketing menthols to Black people, which included the now-illegal practice of giving free cigarettes to children.
- surfpel 4y ago
  "By this logic, not offering black & brown people mortgages and excluding them from status symbols is a form of racism..." Yeah that seems pretty racist actually.
helsinkiandrew 4y ago
Reminded me of this slightly different take on culture/race specific marketing, and yes cigarettes are currently seen as 'worse' than alcohol now but in the 1920s the view would have been reversed. "Cognac 101: The Beloved Brandy of Black Culture". https://www.cuisinenoirmag.com/cognac-brandy-of-black-culture/ https://www.cuisinenoirmag.com/cognac-brandy-of-black-cultur... > The story of cognac’s penetration into our culture is unique and it continues to serve as a benchmark for brands to learn how to engage with us authentically and with intention.
- lolbutno 4y ago
  Century-old French cognac brands are absolutely thrilled that African-American gentlemen and rap artists have decided to take a liking to their product.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    Well, as the article clearly states, Hennessy, the largest and one of the oldest manufacturers, put considerable marketing effort into that, so, yes, they're probably fairly satisfied with it. I'm not sure what your point is, here.
renewiltord 4y ago
I loved menthol cigarettes but in every social group I've found, menthol cigarettes have a way higher amount of disparagement than cigarettes (which people occasionally admit to smoking while drunk). I wonder why people treat them like coffee connoisseurs treat shitty coffee.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Same, well, until they were banned here anyway. After they were banned there was no disparagement, only "where did you get those?".
- klyrs 4y ago
  In my experience, people's feelings towards menthols has been strongly correlated to caste -- rich white people seem to hate them with a passion. This might have something to do with who they were marketed to.
_8j50 4y ago
Corporate america markets just about everything based on race and the people wonder why there are racial divisions. You can say similar things about fast food or payday loans. My opinion is the blame is misplaced, actually there shouldn't be any blaming. A smoker is not a victim. An adult willingly started a harmful addictive habit. The state has no authority to regulate this. It may save lives to ban harmful substances but a government does not exist to save lives. When you buy a cigarette you are well warned of the dangers right there in the box, it is not the government's place to prevent people from enganging in risky behavior because regulating people private decisions is beyond its authority. The government however can regulate when such a behavior affects others like where you smoke, require you to pay insurance for the inevitable medical care you will need and require tobacco companies to advertise against their own product if they wish to sell it. From cigarettes to fentanyl, it is not a government's place to prohibit a substance.
- workingon 4y ago
  This seems strange because the government has been regulating what I’m allowed to do with my own body for awhile now, and keep coming up with new ones in fact. But get out the pitchforks when they try to tell multinational corporations to stop selling death sticks to children!
  - _8j50 4y ago
    Children are under parent/guardian supervision and they cannot make risk assesment and accept risk it makes sense to age restrict risky items. What I said obviously speaks against your own body as well. The fact is if you have a secular government and a democratic one at that they lack authority to do many of the things they are doing. They exist to govern liberty not enforce world views and keep people from hurting themselves. Democracy should be like Unix, if you decide to shoot yourself in the foot it should enable you to do it in the most efficient way possible.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mdrzn 4y ago
Related very interestin video by Knowing Better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMOyNgLSX2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMOyNgLSX2g
frozenport 4y ago
The story is perhaps more nuanced than white people hurting black people. Efforts to target community leaders were lead by a famous black marketing executive: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/903894678 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/903894678. And Tom Burrell has blood on his hands.

20 points by prismatic 4y ago

Similar Marlboro trying to market cigarettes to women so that they could be equal to men.

Watching characters smoking on film often gives me cravings, but just seeing the words "menthol cigarettes" makes me want to run out and grab a pack. Thankfully, they're banned in Canada so it would be a long drive for me today. I'm not black, but most of the kids in my neighborhood were, and these ads certainly impacted us. The article doesn't really dig into what's so bad about menthol. It makes the smoke feel cool, which provides sensory relief. But it's like drinking alcohol to feel warm -- it increases an individual's mental tolerance without doing a damned thing physically. It even seems to make the cigarettes more addictive, which strongly resonates with me, probably because they diminish the body's "stop that, it hurts" response. Clove cigarettes have a similarly numbing sensation (and delicious flavor). As a teen I couldn't understand why those were banned in some places... now I only wonder why menthols didn't get the axe when other flavors were banned in the US, though I've always harbored a suspicion about the brand of Obama's guilty pleasure.

toomanybeersies 4y ago
I have the opposite feelings about menthols; I can't stand them. Whenever I smoke a menthol I feel like I'm smoking a toothbrush. I'm a full time smoker, but I'll turn down a menthol if offered one. I'd rather suffer through nicotine cravings than subject myself to a Colgate coffin nail.

CoastalCoder 4y ago

I think I'm missing something, could someone clarify? I think trying to persuade anyone to start smoking is evil. But society is generally accepting of marketing that's tailored to different demographics, including race. So what's especially noteworthy about marketing cigarettes differently to black people vs. others? AFAIK, regardless of race, the tobacco companies wanted to maximize their profits at the cost of their customers' lives.

quattrofan 4y ago
jrm4 4y ago
Good point. This is the sort of thing that should make us all go a bit deeper on this: Perhaps it is marketing that is fundamentally evil. Why should we be accepting of an entire industry dedicated solely to trying to convince people to buy things they literally do not need?
- kqr 4y ago
  Someone in marketing would tell you that they aren't trying to convince people to buy things they don't need (that's an expensive way to pay for customers to abandon your product, generally) but that they are helping people understand that the problem they've had for a long time is solved by a product.
  - pseudo0 4y ago
    Unfortunately step one of that process is often convincing people that they have a problem, sometimes through questionable methods. It's easy to make a teenaged girl feel like her appearance is a problem when the basis for comparison is a photoshopped Instagram model, for example. Inducing demand for a product like that does not seem very beneficial for society.
- Thorrez 4y ago
  Cigarettes harm people. Is that the case for most products? Certainly not to the same degree, but I wonder to what degree buying different types of products helps vs harms people. What we truly need to live is very little. What we want tends to be much more. Jesus said that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. To what degree is our materialistic society harming us?
- Gustomaximus 4y ago
  People do needs things. And people do want choice and information. Marketing is no more evil than programming or any role. All roles have people use it detrimentally and unethically. I'm a marketer and only once felt less ethical in my role (pushing credit cards for a bank group) but most of the time is good work, promoting decent products to people as an alternate to the popular choice, which in itself drives competition and product improvement. While I would personally love to see better ad regulation in the world to do thinks like reduce billboards and tracking etc I still think it clear the world would be a worse place if companies were not allowed to promote their product.

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

By this logic, preferential marketing of home mortgages or diamonds to light skinned people is a form of racism, given that quite often a fool and his money are soon parted. Menthol cigarettes should not be banned or entirely excluded from advertisements. They should certainly be discouraged, especially among young people. At the same time, adults of any race should not be infantilized as not deserving of making their own decisions.

schwartzworld 4y ago
> preferential marketing of home mortgages or diamonds to light skinned people is a form of racism Yes, addictive cancer sticks must be exactly the same thing as selling people houses.
smt88 4y ago
This is about the history of marketing menthols to Black people, which included the now-illegal practice of giving free cigarettes to children.
surfpel 4y ago
"By this logic, not offering black & brown people mortgages and excluding them from status symbols is a form of racism..." Yeah that seems pretty racist actually.

helsinkiandrew 4y ago

Reminded me of this slightly different take on culture/race specific marketing, and yes cigarettes are currently seen as 'worse' than alcohol now but in the 1920s the view would have been reversed. "Cognac 101: The Beloved Brandy of Black Culture". https://www.cuisinenoirmag.com/cognac-brandy-of-black-culture/ https://www.cuisinenoirmag.com/cognac-brandy-of-black-cultur... > The story of cognac’s penetration into our culture is unique and it continues to serve as a benchmark for brands to learn how to engage with us authentically and with intention.

lolbutno 4y ago
Century-old French cognac brands are absolutely thrilled that African-American gentlemen and rap artists have decided to take a liking to their product.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  Well, as the article clearly states, Hennessy, the largest and one of the oldest manufacturers, put considerable marketing effort into that, so, yes, they're probably fairly satisfied with it. I'm not sure what your point is, here.

renewiltord 4y ago

I loved menthol cigarettes but in every social group I've found, menthol cigarettes have a way higher amount of disparagement than cigarettes (which people occasionally admit to smoking while drunk). I wonder why people treat them like coffee connoisseurs treat shitty coffee.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
Same, well, until they were banned here anyway. After they were banned there was no disparagement, only "where did you get those?".
klyrs 4y ago
In my experience, people's feelings towards menthols has been strongly correlated to caste -- rich white people seem to hate them with a passion. This might have something to do with who they were marketed to.

_8j50 4y ago

Corporate america markets just about everything based on race and the people wonder why there are racial divisions. You can say similar things about fast food or payday loans. My opinion is the blame is misplaced, actually there shouldn't be any blaming. A smoker is not a victim. An adult willingly started a harmful addictive habit. The state has no authority to regulate this. It may save lives to ban harmful substances but a government does not exist to save lives. When you buy a cigarette you are well warned of the dangers right there in the box, it is not the government's place to prevent people from enganging in risky behavior because regulating people private decisions is beyond its authority. The government however can regulate when such a behavior affects others like where you smoke, require you to pay insurance for the inevitable medical care you will need and require tobacco companies to advertise against their own product if they wish to sell it. From cigarettes to fentanyl, it is not a government's place to prohibit a substance.

workingon 4y ago
This seems strange because the government has been regulating what I’m allowed to do with my own body for awhile now, and keep coming up with new ones in fact. But get out the pitchforks when they try to tell multinational corporations to stop selling death sticks to children!
- _8j50 4y ago
  Children are under parent/guardian supervision and they cannot make risk assesment and accept risk it makes sense to age restrict risky items. What I said obviously speaks against your own body as well. The fact is if you have a secular government and a democratic one at that they lack authority to do many of the things they are doing. They exist to govern liberty not enforce world views and keep people from hurting themselves. Democracy should be like Unix, if you decide to shoot yourself in the foot it should enable you to do it in the most efficient way possible.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mdrzn 4y ago

Related very interestin video by Knowing Better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMOyNgLSX2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMOyNgLSX2g

frozenport 4y ago

The story is perhaps more nuanced than white people hurting black people. Efforts to target community leaders were lead by a famous black marketing executive: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/903894678 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/903894678. And Tom Burrell has blood on his hands.