5 ms·

If I had to use either of these things as part of running my team of 12 engineers, I'd resign immediately. I feel so sorry for those who continue operating in

If I had to use either of these things as part of running my team of 12 engineers, I'd resign immediately. I feel so sorry for those who continue operating in such soulless, life-sucking work environments that they're down to choosing which horrible attention-grabbing SaaS product they'd rather use. Have you not considered simply using neither? What is wrong with email? Hell, what's wrong with a phone call?

marcinzm 4y ago
>Hell, what's wrong with a phone call? >attention-grabbing
- AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
  Please, if you are going to reply to people here, please do so thoughtfully. Phones have had ring mute features on them since they went cordless back in the 1980s.
  - marcinzm 4y ago
    Playing phone tag stopped being fun decades ago once SMS came about which you probably don't approve of either.
    - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
      There are annoying things about all aspects to life. Your solution is to add more and more annoying things unnecessarily in an effort to side-step the problem. I think there should be an examination of the root causes and more post-mortems to actually understand what went wrong and why the solution didn't work either. You want to keep piling on in a rather psychopathic manner: Phone tag --> SMS --> Email --> AIM --> MySpace --> Facebook --> Twitter --> Instagram --> Snapchat --> TikTok --> ??????? You even do this in other posts, defending the idea of the suicide prevention hotline before even discussing wtf might be causing people to be suicidal. [0] People like you are why we are rapidly shedding any semblance of progress in the Western world. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32121231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32121231
corrral 4y ago
> Hell, what's wrong with a phone call? You have to remember to take notes. I hate going to find something in Slack history and seeing a phone call right around where I think important information may have been conveyed. At best, I have to go look other places to find it. At worst, there's nothing. And since I may not have been on the call, it may not even be possible for me to have notes, short of bugging the people who participated and hoping they took notes. This even goes for personal stuff. I much prefer when my wife sends me important info via chat (not Slack, in this case) rather than calling, unless it's super time-sensitive, for basically the same reason. Email evades the objection to calls, sure, but I've yet to see an email client that doesn't suck for low-friction multiparty chat. Yes, including gmail. I'm pretty sure this could be solved by a client, but I've not seen it, and I think part of the problem is having to accommodate other clients' default quoting behavior and threading and such, so it may be something that could technically be solved by a good client, but couldn't in fact be solved by a client.
ajkjk 4y ago
> If I had to use either of these things as part of running my team of 12 engineers, I'd resign immediately. Better for you and better for the team! Cause I wouldn't want to work with someone who would do that.
- AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ajkjk 4y ago
    I like Slack. As far as I know most developers who are not total curmudgeons do. It's really pretty nice. > Don't you feel bad about working for a firm that exists merely to exploit dumb content creators No? I used Dropbox for years before I worked here. I would feel dumb to _not_ use a ready-made solution for backups and instead roll something complicated and error-prone myself. I simply do not care in the slightest about backups or figuring out how to make them work. Honestly my happiness is proportional to how many months it has been since I had to write a shell script.
    - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
    - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
      - ajkjk 4y ago
        Uncivility is really not welcome on this site, and there's no point engaging with it anyway.
        AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
        You began your engagement with me by saying that if I resigned from my current position, it would be best for the company and for the team of direct reports I manage. Is this a good example to follow if I want to be civil on Hacker News? Or perhaps, are you suggesting you're actually the one at fault here? Would it be fair to say that given your advice, I should not have said anything back to you in the first place? I cackle at the notion that "uncivility" (sic) is not welcome, and that one should not engage with it. You just got done telling me that the extreme incivility forced upon workplaces all over the globe by horrible companies that force their engineers to utilize horseshit like Dropbox, Slack, and Microsoft was desirable. In fact, you claimed it was more worthwhile than retaining a competent manager who cares deeply about the happiness of his direct reports and in so doing, eschews such needless garbage with extremely positive results.
AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
It's fascinating how whenever I bring up how actually terrible for the world this SaaS shit is, people get very defensive about it and end up resorting to personal attacks. It's as if people had never before considered that what they are doing is actually very toxic for the world and our planet. It's as if you hate being reminded that people that support Slack and Microsoft are basically the devil incarnate.

marcinzm 4y ago

>Hell, what's wrong with a phone call? >attention-grabbing

AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
Please, if you are going to reply to people here, please do so thoughtfully. Phones have had ring mute features on them since they went cordless back in the 1980s.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  Playing phone tag stopped being fun decades ago once SMS came about which you probably don't approve of either.
  - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
    There are annoying things about all aspects to life. Your solution is to add more and more annoying things unnecessarily in an effort to side-step the problem. I think there should be an examination of the root causes and more post-mortems to actually understand what went wrong and why the solution didn't work either. You want to keep piling on in a rather psychopathic manner: Phone tag --> SMS --> Email --> AIM --> MySpace --> Facebook --> Twitter --> Instagram --> Snapchat --> TikTok --> ??????? You even do this in other posts, defending the idea of the suicide prevention hotline before even discussing wtf might be causing people to be suicidal. [0] People like you are why we are rapidly shedding any semblance of progress in the Western world. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32121231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32121231

corrral 4y ago

> Hell, what's wrong with a phone call? You have to remember to take notes. I hate going to find something in Slack history and seeing a phone call right around where I think important information may have been conveyed. At best, I have to go look other places to find it. At worst, there's nothing. And since I may not have been on the call, it may not even be possible for me to have notes, short of bugging the people who participated and hoping they took notes. This even goes for personal stuff. I much prefer when my wife sends me important info via chat (not Slack, in this case) rather than calling, unless it's super time-sensitive, for basically the same reason. Email evades the objection to calls, sure, but I've yet to see an email client that doesn't suck for low-friction multiparty chat. Yes, including gmail. I'm pretty sure this could be solved by a client, but I've not seen it, and I think part of the problem is having to accommodate other clients' default quoting behavior and threading and such, so it may be something that could technically be solved by a good client, but couldn't in fact be solved by a client.

ajkjk 4y ago

> If I had to use either of these things as part of running my team of 12 engineers, I'd resign immediately. Better for you and better for the team! Cause I wouldn't want to work with someone who would do that.

AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
[flagged]
- ajkjk 4y ago
  I like Slack. As far as I know most developers who are not total curmudgeons do. It's really pretty nice. > Don't you feel bad about working for a firm that exists merely to exploit dumb content creators No? I used Dropbox for years before I worked here. I would feel dumb to _not_ use a ready-made solution for backups and instead roll something complicated and error-prone myself. I simply do not care in the slightest about backups or figuring out how to make them work. Honestly my happiness is proportional to how many months it has been since I had to write a shell script.
  - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
  - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
    - ajkjk 4y ago
      Uncivility is really not welcome on this site, and there's no point engaging with it anyway.
      - AndrewUnmuted 4y ago
        You began your engagement with me by saying that if I resigned from my current position, it would be best for the company and for the team of direct reports I manage. Is this a good example to follow if I want to be civil on Hacker News? Or perhaps, are you suggesting you're actually the one at fault here? Would it be fair to say that given your advice, I should not have said anything back to you in the first place? I cackle at the notion that "uncivility" (sic) is not welcome, and that one should not engage with it. You just got done telling me that the extreme incivility forced upon workplaces all over the globe by horrible companies that force their engineers to utilize horseshit like Dropbox, Slack, and Microsoft was desirable. In fact, you claimed it was more worthwhile than retaining a competent manager who cares deeply about the happiness of his direct reports and in so doing, eschews such needless garbage with extremely positive results.

AndrewUnmuted 4y ago

It's fascinating how whenever I bring up how actually terrible for the world this SaaS shit is, people get very defensive about it and end up resorting to personal attacks. It's as if people had never before considered that what they are doing is actually very toxic for the world and our planet. It's as if you hate being reminded that people that support Slack and Microsoft are basically the devil incarnate.