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The pandemic made it clear that elites are ok with mass death and debilitation. It may not be a conspiracy, but people in power simply don’t care. So the logica

by pm90 4y ago

The pandemic made it clear that elites are ok with mass death and debilitation. It may not be a conspiracy, but people in power simply don’t care. So the logical conclusion is that a lot of the most vulnerable people are going to perish, the hardier ones will hobble by in filthy conditions like what you see in old age homes today (but there will be a gun around if they wanna quickly end their misery). Structural change on a massive scale is required to change the status quo.

Guthur 4y ago
No more massive scale anything. We can not manage societies like that. If you feel they should have shut down more and harder to save lives you are categorically wrong. It would never have worked in any degree of severity and has caused such damage as to have pushed us to disaster. The vaccines are nothing more than a redistribution of wealth to big pharma, wealth that many of us can not afford. I work and earn what should be a good salary yet I own nothing. I will not be locked in my house again by the government or anyone else, you will have to kill me.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  It’s ok, this kind of thinking will have you locked in your house by climate catastrophe not government.
oneoff786 4y ago
What about the lockdowns, mandates, eviction moratoriums, handouts, and mass vaccination campaigns?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
FiberBundle 4y ago
Severe pandemics are actually really bad for elites, since large scale death increases the value of employees. See e.g. "The Great Leveler" by Scheidel.
- rileymat2 4y ago
  Demographically did this happen with covid? The lockdowns and staying home clearly affected the labor market, but deaths within the labor demographics were not that high.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
TheCowboy 4y ago
I really wish posters on HN would be forced to specify who they are talking about when they say "the elites" because it's often so vague as to be meaningless grandstanding and allows people to engage in goalpost shifting. No one can even have a meaningful interaction with this comment. It's also trivial to come up with 'elites' who were not okay with mass death and debilitation.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  There isn’t a single person though. How about the ones that are actively wanting wage labor to keep going so they can keep getting richer? I do legitimately wonder, after you’ve earned your first few hundred million, why tf do you keep going.
  - TheCowboy 4y ago
    We are likely considered 'the elites' by wage labor. Even though neither one of us have made a hundred million. There exist many working class people who wanted to get back to normal (polling demonstrates this), or at the very least wanted policies that tried to keep schools open. They also believe the things you're saying make you one of the elites. It's also easier for 'established elites' to want perpetual work-from-home since they're in work that best positions them to experience little economic pain doing that. It might even be somewhat elitist to dismiss this POV. That's the problem with using such a vague term.
    - aaomidi 4y ago
      Arguably what people “want” is also extremely impacted by the “elite”. The way we consume media and culture is controlled by a very small group of people.
    - spicymaki 4y ago
      When looking at class we would be called the archaic term bourgeoisie. We can live comfortably and buy things we want, but are not part of the elites (noblesse) who have privileges and influence beyond money. We should define new terms to clarify the class strata.
Barrin92 4y ago
>The pandemic made it clear that elites are ok with mass death and debilitation I don't know what elites you have in mind but the average Spring Break attendee seemed to be significantly more okay with an uncontrolled pandemic than Bill Gates the few members of the political elite who were okay with it usually happened to be put in their positions of power by the not-so-very-elite section of our democratic electorate.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  I see your Bill Gates and raise Musk, Murdoch and whichever billionaire is in meat-packing plants who were all against shutdowns. Let's be honest, (today's) Gates is an outlier among billionaires.
dang 4y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32143991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32143991.

by pm90 4y ago

Guthur 4y ago

No more massive scale anything. We can not manage societies like that. If you feel they should have shut down more and harder to save lives you are categorically wrong. It would never have worked in any degree of severity and has caused such damage as to have pushed us to disaster. The vaccines are nothing more than a redistribution of wealth to big pharma, wealth that many of us can not afford. I work and earn what should be a good salary yet I own nothing. I will not be locked in my house again by the government or anyone else, you will have to kill me.

kennywinker 4y ago
It’s ok, this kind of thinking will have you locked in your house by climate catastrophe not government.

oneoff786 4y ago

What about the lockdowns, mandates, eviction moratoriums, handouts, and mass vaccination campaigns?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

FiberBundle 4y ago

Severe pandemics are actually really bad for elites, since large scale death increases the value of employees. See e.g. "The Great Leveler" by Scheidel.

rileymat2 4y ago
Demographically did this happen with covid? The lockdowns and staying home clearly affected the labor market, but deaths within the labor demographics were not that high.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

TheCowboy 4y ago

I really wish posters on HN would be forced to specify who they are talking about when they say "the elites" because it's often so vague as to be meaningless grandstanding and allows people to engage in goalpost shifting. No one can even have a meaningful interaction with this comment. It's also trivial to come up with 'elites' who were not okay with mass death and debilitation.

aaomidi 4y ago
There isn’t a single person though. How about the ones that are actively wanting wage labor to keep going so they can keep getting richer? I do legitimately wonder, after you’ve earned your first few hundred million, why tf do you keep going.
- TheCowboy 4y ago
  We are likely considered 'the elites' by wage labor. Even though neither one of us have made a hundred million. There exist many working class people who wanted to get back to normal (polling demonstrates this), or at the very least wanted policies that tried to keep schools open. They also believe the things you're saying make you one of the elites. It's also easier for 'established elites' to want perpetual work-from-home since they're in work that best positions them to experience little economic pain doing that. It might even be somewhat elitist to dismiss this POV. That's the problem with using such a vague term.
  - aaomidi 4y ago
    Arguably what people “want” is also extremely impacted by the “elite”. The way we consume media and culture is controlled by a very small group of people.
  - spicymaki 4y ago
    When looking at class we would be called the archaic term bourgeoisie. We can live comfortably and buy things we want, but are not part of the elites (noblesse) who have privileges and influence beyond money. We should define new terms to clarify the class strata.

Barrin92 4y ago

>The pandemic made it clear that elites are ok with mass death and debilitation I don't know what elites you have in mind but the average Spring Break attendee seemed to be significantly more okay with an uncontrolled pandemic than Bill Gates the few members of the political elite who were okay with it usually happened to be put in their positions of power by the not-so-very-elite section of our democratic electorate.

sangnoir 4y ago
I see your Bill Gates and raise Musk, Murdoch and whichever billionaire is in meat-packing plants who were all against shutdowns. Let's be honest, (today's) Gates is an outlier among billionaires.

dang 4y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32143991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32143991.