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> Wow. Unfortunately I imagine we'll see a lot more of that sort of thing as more and more women are unable to access safe/legal/well-regulated abortion clinic

> Wow. Unfortunately I imagine we'll see a lot more of that sort of thing as more and more women are unable to access safe/legal/well-regulated abortion clinics. IIRC, all that stuff was done in an actual licensed abortion clinic. Also you have a weird kind of argument that seems to pivot on the false assumption that the issue is how gruesome the act is, not the act itself.

wizofaus 4y ago
I read the wikipedia article, it seems there were multiple failings at various levels of government that allowed that clinic to remain open. And where did I comment on the gruesome nature of what was done? It's the fact he was responsible for the deaths of mothers and infants post- delivery (earning him the title of convicted serial killer) that provoked my reaction. I can only hope that every effort is made to ensure women in states where well-regulated clinics are no longer operating are able to travel as needed to access them.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > And where did I comment on the gruesome nature of what was done? It was implicit in your response. The acts I cited were gruesome, and your response implied the response should be to replace them with better-regulated, more antiseptic version of the same act. It's possible the interpret your comment as an extremely aloof statement of fact without implicit policy advocacy, but that interpretation strains credulity.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    Absolutely I believe clinics run in such a way need to be shut down, I can't imagine anybody arguing otherwise. Unless you somehow believe that doing so without providing a safe/regulated alternative will magically result in women no longer having health-threatening pregnancies or reliably deciding to persist with their pregnancies no matter what (despite all the evidence to the contrary from other parts of the world with very limited legal access to abortion), then I can't see how you could not advocate for better-regulated facilities. And just in case there's any doubt as to my position - if a woman pregnant at 30 months were to decide she was no longer able to continue the pregnancy, such that live birth was not an option for whatever reason, and there were a way that the foetus could be safely and readily aborted with no risk of harm to the mother, then absolutely she is the only person who can reasonably make that choice. The rest of us have no right to insist we know better, no matter how much we may dislike the result (and yes, I would absolutely be saddened to know that foetus was robbed of its chance to develop into a human).
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Absolutely I believe clinics run in such a way need to be shut down, I can't imagine anybody arguing otherwise. So your issue isn't so much with snipping the spinal cord at 30 months, but but whether the scissors are dirty or clean?
      - wizofaus 4y ago
        If a technique was developed such that it was safer to abort a pregnancy than to perform delivery at 30 weeks and that technique happened to involve snipping the spinal chord then I would definitely want to see that option be legally available and offered by well regulated clinics, yes. And sure, it sounds somewhat gruesome, but so do many commonly performed surgical procedures.

wizofaus 4y ago

I read the wikipedia article, it seems there were multiple failings at various levels of government that allowed that clinic to remain open. And where did I comment on the gruesome nature of what was done? It's the fact he was responsible for the deaths of mothers and infants post- delivery (earning him the title of convicted serial killer) that provoked my reaction. I can only hope that every effort is made to ensure women in states where well-regulated clinics are no longer operating are able to travel as needed to access them.

tablespoon 4y ago
> And where did I comment on the gruesome nature of what was done? It was implicit in your response. The acts I cited were gruesome, and your response implied the response should be to replace them with better-regulated, more antiseptic version of the same act. It's possible the interpret your comment as an extremely aloof statement of fact without implicit policy advocacy, but that interpretation strains credulity.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Absolutely I believe clinics run in such a way need to be shut down, I can't imagine anybody arguing otherwise. Unless you somehow believe that doing so without providing a safe/regulated alternative will magically result in women no longer having health-threatening pregnancies or reliably deciding to persist with their pregnancies no matter what (despite all the evidence to the contrary from other parts of the world with very limited legal access to abortion), then I can't see how you could not advocate for better-regulated facilities. And just in case there's any doubt as to my position - if a woman pregnant at 30 months were to decide she was no longer able to continue the pregnancy, such that live birth was not an option for whatever reason, and there were a way that the foetus could be safely and readily aborted with no risk of harm to the mother, then absolutely she is the only person who can reasonably make that choice. The rest of us have no right to insist we know better, no matter how much we may dislike the result (and yes, I would absolutely be saddened to know that foetus was robbed of its chance to develop into a human).
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Absolutely I believe clinics run in such a way need to be shut down, I can't imagine anybody arguing otherwise. So your issue isn't so much with snipping the spinal cord at 30 months, but but whether the scissors are dirty or clean?
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      If a technique was developed such that it was safer to abort a pregnancy than to perform delivery at 30 weeks and that technique happened to involve snipping the spinal chord then I would definitely want to see that option be legally available and offered by well regulated clinics, yes. And sure, it sounds somewhat gruesome, but so do many commonly performed surgical procedures.