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A sibling post to mine suggested that was not so. Some googling suggests it's a "felony". I'm not even 100% sure what the situation is in my own country - it's

A sibling post to mine suggested that was not so. Some googling suggests it's a "felony". I'm not even 100% sure what the situation is in my own country - it's hard to imagine there's a significant number of mothers of sound mind who would deliberately abandon their child such that it has no chance of survival. Not that I believe it has significant relevance to the abortion criminalisation debate either way.

rcoveson 4y ago
> Can you find a single example of an abortion being done at 32 weeks? > it's hard to imagine there's a significant number of mothers of sound mind who would deliberately abandon their child such that it has no chance of survival. I don't see how either of these quotes fit into a discussion about abortion/childcare law. Shouldn't the law make as clear as possible when it is illegal to abort a pregnancy or give up the care of an infant? The argument that "nobody will ever/has ever (that we can think of) do something so horrible as that" does nothing but muddy the water. Let's just assume that at least one person in the future wants to abort their healthy 39 week fetus, and at least one person in the future wants to abandon their infant. These would hardly be the most surprisingly immoral things ever done by human beings.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  No, but using extreme possible scenarios as a basis for criminal law hardly seems like a sensible strategy either. Criminalising certain activities always has consequences. If the threat of being thrown in gaol for abandoning an infant really does have the desired preventative properties, and doesn't lead to other unintended consequences (e.g. women choosing abortion or attempting an unsupervised birth instead if they're at all concerned they'll be unable to care for the child, and risk being gaoled for abandoning it), then sure, criminalise it. Both seem like unlikely propositions to me.
rayiner 4y ago
In my county a woman was charged with first degree murder last year for abandoning her baby to die: https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/anne-arundel-glen-burnie-child-abandonment/ https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/anne-arundel-glen-bur... Criminal laws exist in part to express society’s moral norms. Abandoning babies to die isn’t illegal because it’s a widespread problem. It’s illegal because it’s wrong. But if your point is that the Venn Diagram intersection between pro-choicers and folks who want to decriminalize infanticide is not a null set you’ve made it.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Charged with attempted first degree murder. But thanks for the link. And while I accept laws do exist to enforce societal norms, if the effect of those laws is to make matters worse, they're still bad laws. I can't say I have a strong position on infanticide. There are undoubtedly cut and dried cases where an adult deliberately terminates the life of a newborn baby that should be classified as criminal acts. Abandoning your own child probably deserves a separate legal classification.

rcoveson 4y ago

> Can you find a single example of an abortion being done at 32 weeks? > it's hard to imagine there's a significant number of mothers of sound mind who would deliberately abandon their child such that it has no chance of survival. I don't see how either of these quotes fit into a discussion about abortion/childcare law. Shouldn't the law make as clear as possible when it is illegal to abort a pregnancy or give up the care of an infant? The argument that "nobody will ever/has ever (that we can think of) do something so horrible as that" does nothing but muddy the water. Let's just assume that at least one person in the future wants to abort their healthy 39 week fetus, and at least one person in the future wants to abandon their infant. These would hardly be the most surprisingly immoral things ever done by human beings.

wizofaus 4y ago
No, but using extreme possible scenarios as a basis for criminal law hardly seems like a sensible strategy either. Criminalising certain activities always has consequences. If the threat of being thrown in gaol for abandoning an infant really does have the desired preventative properties, and doesn't lead to other unintended consequences (e.g. women choosing abortion or attempting an unsupervised birth instead if they're at all concerned they'll be unable to care for the child, and risk being gaoled for abandoning it), then sure, criminalise it. Both seem like unlikely propositions to me.

rayiner 4y ago

In my county a woman was charged with first degree murder last year for abandoning her baby to die: https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/anne-arundel-glen-burnie-child-abandonment/ https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/anne-arundel-glen-bur... Criminal laws exist in part to express society’s moral norms. Abandoning babies to die isn’t illegal because it’s a widespread problem. It’s illegal because it’s wrong. But if your point is that the Venn Diagram intersection between pro-choicers and folks who want to decriminalize infanticide is not a null set you’ve made it.

wizofaus 4y ago
Charged with attempted first degree murder. But thanks for the link. And while I accept laws do exist to enforce societal norms, if the effect of those laws is to make matters worse, they're still bad laws. I can't say I have a strong position on infanticide. There are undoubtedly cut and dried cases where an adult deliberately terminates the life of a newborn baby that should be classified as criminal acts. Abandoning your own child probably deserves a separate legal classification.