5 ms·

The legality should interest you. I saw someone have their small business shut down by police because they were running it out of their basement. It wasn't the

by duped 4y ago

The legality should interest you. I saw someone have their small business shut down by police because they were running it out of their basement. It wasn't the noise or pollution (which realistically are the nuisances you're going to be inflicting on neighbors) but the excess cars parked and delivery trucks coming and going down the street. One neighbor ratted them out. The problem with the space isn't really the capital but noise abatement, waste disposal, and inventory. The ideal product would be quiet to make, not use tough chemicals to dispose, and materials you can buy in bulk and small enough not to take up a ton of space in the worksite.

marpstar 4y ago
In reviewing neighborhood covenants whilst searching for a new home, I was surprised to see some of them make explicit the fact that running a business in your home is allowed, provided that it doesn't generate significant traffic/parking.
- mh- 4y ago
  This is indeed the case in my HOA as well and I was (pleasantly) surprised to see it codified as such.
- corrral 4y ago
  Gotta have a carve-out for the folks participating in an MLM scheme out of their house. They're quite popular. Of course it also benefits remote tech workers who have an LLC or whatever. And handymen, et c.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    This is almost always exactly what it's for, and those with ears to hear can use it to their advantage. The key is to fly under the radar and not cause problems.
    - oceanplexian 4y ago
      The key is to never buy a house in an HOA, and write your lawmakers to pass laws to limit their power as much as possible.
      - kelnos 4y ago
        I never really understood the idea of a HOA for single-family homes, or even duplexes. It makes sense if you have a condo building, even with a small number of units, since you'll invariably have shared space that needs to be cared for. I've seen some large HOAs that cover lots of homes where they provide free or discounted community services, like a gym, pool, tennis courts, etc. But it seems silly to structure that as a HOA rather than some sort of voluntary community organization. Or just do it more traditionally and charge membership or use fees to use the amenities. If that's not financially feasible, then perhaps there aren't enough people who actually want them, and so maybe they shouldn't exist. And I get that many homeowners want to control their neighbors in order to keep the neighborhood frozen in some particular state, but it's... pretty gross. I hear the line "protecting home values" trotted out all the time, but that just feels like an excuse for busybodies who want to control others' lives. Things like not allowing a garage-based business that produces lots of noise and pollution should just be covered by regular zoning laws.
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    And piano teachers
  - lostapathy 4y ago
    There's also the angle of "we told you what kind of harmless businesses you can have, and automotive repair isn't on the list, so you can't do that even though the rules don't explicitly say so".
- ghaff 4y ago
  I actually got something along these lines into my deed--which was for a software business before that was pretty normal and not the sort of thing even worth mentioning.
- StillBored 4y ago
  I suspect that is because home based businesses are explicitly protected in many localities in the US. AKA, the HOA couldn't actually tell you that you couldn't do it if they wanted to.
- guidoism 4y ago
  Yeah it has been weird to me how many HOAs explicitly call out hairdresser as something you can’t do from home.
- 6510 4y ago
  There are also zones for businesses that do or do not allow living there.
vinaypai 4y ago
The way I read it OP isn't saying they are going to ignore legal issues, but that they are looking for ideas and don't want to get into the weeds of legal issues for the moment. I assume they intend to narrow down ideas based on their specific situation.
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>The legality should interest you. I saw someone have their small business shut down by police because they were running it out of their basement. It wasn't the noise or pollution (which realistically are the nuisances you're going to be inflicting on neighbors) but the excess cars parked and delivery trucks coming and going down the street. One neighbor ratted them out. Nobody is checking what's going on in garages and basements in Detroit and the police in that kind of place would laugh off a call like that. Not having snooty busybody neighbors (an impossibility in most of the "nice neighborhoods" and "good school districts" that HNers generally buy into) seems to matter more than legality in practice. Nobody else cares if you're legal as long as you're reasonable.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  My next house is going to be so far from my neighbors that if they were complaining about noise from my basement they would be admitting to trespassing.
- kelnos 4y ago
  I don't think "there are some place where law enforcement doesn't give a shit" is a good reason to just not care about legality. At the very least, it would behoove someone living in a place Detroit to at least think about it -- and perhaps decide "nah, no one is going to bother me" -- before starting something.
Nextgrid 4y ago
I'm curious, what legal issues are we talking about here? What is not legal about running a business out of one's basement, and what law were they "ratted out" for breaking?
- palmetieri2000 4y ago
  Not who you're replying to, but I would imagine its an issue of registry and/or zoning depending on the type of business (and maybe tax stuff too). I'm from Australia so probably pretty different laws, but here at least you have to register the businesses address of operations and a part of that process is identifying your 'primary operation or activity', ie what the business does, some operations will be excluded from being conducted in residentially zoned areas regardless (large scale manufacturing, waste disposal & recycling, etc) but most trades will be permitted, I know a number of car mechanics that operate largely from home.
- convolvatron 4y ago
  compressed gas storage, flammables, chemical storage, hot work, etc are often governed by local law over and above needing a property zoned for light industry.
  - robocat 4y ago
    And if you run into any problems with the above that damages the property or other properties, you will be uninsured, and/or sued (and no liability cover).
- Lammy 4y ago
  You need a "Home Occupation Permit". The details will vary by municipality, but here are the requirements for Sacramento CA, just to pick a random example: https://www.cityofsacramento.org/-/media/Corporate/Files/EDD/Home-Occupation-Permit-Requirements-Revised-9-18-13-(1).pdf https://www.cityofsacramento.org/-/media/Corporate/Files/EDD... "The following occupations are eligible for a Home Occupation Permit subject to restrictions discussed in the next section. If the occupation is followed by an asterisk, the use is also subject to special conditions also discussed below. Eligible home occupations are: 1. General office uses, such as accountant, administrative assistant, answering service, appraiser, architect, attorney, bookkeeper, broker or agent (real estate, insurance, etc.), counselor, consultant, drafting service, engineer, interior decorator, secretarial service, word processing service, and other office uses whose characteristics are substantially similar to those listed. 2. Commission merchant, direct sale product distribution, internet, or mail order business. 3. Dressmaker, tailor, fashion designer. 4. Mobile vehicle glass installation and mobile vehicle detailing.* 5. Pet services, such as pet sitting, pet grooming, pet training, and veterinarian care.* 6. Office for contractor, handyperson, janitorial service, landscape contractor, gardening service.* 7. Artist. 8. Tutoring.* 9. Small equipment, appliance, and computer assembly, repair, or reconstruction.* 10. Healing arts professional, including physician, surgeon, chiropractor, physical therapist, acupuncturist, and somatic practitioner.* 11. Hair stylist, barber, and manicurist. 12. Swimming instructor.* 13. Cottage food operation as defined in section 113758 of the California Health and Safety Code." ================= I saw somebody get dinged for this once for running a Twitch stream out of their garage and accepting donations, one of the only times I've seen the modern "contractor" trend work out in anyone's favor: - https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1036846647945261056 https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1036846647945261056 - https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1040074413599678465 https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1040074413599678465
aaron695 4y ago

by duped 4y ago

marpstar 4y ago

In reviewing neighborhood covenants whilst searching for a new home, I was surprised to see some of them make explicit the fact that running a business in your home is allowed, provided that it doesn't generate significant traffic/parking.

mh- 4y ago
This is indeed the case in my HOA as well and I was (pleasantly) surprised to see it codified as such.
corrral 4y ago
Gotta have a carve-out for the folks participating in an MLM scheme out of their house. They're quite popular. Of course it also benefits remote tech workers who have an LLC or whatever. And handymen, et c.
- bombcar 4y ago
  This is almost always exactly what it's for, and those with ears to hear can use it to their advantage. The key is to fly under the radar and not cause problems.
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    The key is to never buy a house in an HOA, and write your lawmakers to pass laws to limit their power as much as possible.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      I never really understood the idea of a HOA for single-family homes, or even duplexes. It makes sense if you have a condo building, even with a small number of units, since you'll invariably have shared space that needs to be cared for. I've seen some large HOAs that cover lots of homes where they provide free or discounted community services, like a gym, pool, tennis courts, etc. But it seems silly to structure that as a HOA rather than some sort of voluntary community organization. Or just do it more traditionally and charge membership or use fees to use the amenities. If that's not financially feasible, then perhaps there aren't enough people who actually want them, and so maybe they shouldn't exist. And I get that many homeowners want to control their neighbors in order to keep the neighborhood frozen in some particular state, but it's... pretty gross. I hear the line "protecting home values" trotted out all the time, but that just feels like an excuse for busybodies who want to control others' lives. Things like not allowing a garage-based business that produces lots of noise and pollution should just be covered by regular zoning laws.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  And piano teachers
- lostapathy 4y ago
  There's also the angle of "we told you what kind of harmless businesses you can have, and automotive repair isn't on the list, so you can't do that even though the rules don't explicitly say so".
ghaff 4y ago
I actually got something along these lines into my deed--which was for a software business before that was pretty normal and not the sort of thing even worth mentioning.
StillBored 4y ago
I suspect that is because home based businesses are explicitly protected in many localities in the US. AKA, the HOA couldn't actually tell you that you couldn't do it if they wanted to.
guidoism 4y ago
Yeah it has been weird to me how many HOAs explicitly call out hairdresser as something you can’t do from home.
6510 4y ago
There are also zones for businesses that do or do not allow living there.

vinaypai 4y ago

The way I read it OP isn't saying they are going to ignore legal issues, but that they are looking for ideas and don't want to get into the weeds of legal issues for the moment. I assume they intend to narrow down ideas based on their specific situation.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

>The legality should interest you. I saw someone have their small business shut down by police because they were running it out of their basement. It wasn't the noise or pollution (which realistically are the nuisances you're going to be inflicting on neighbors) but the excess cars parked and delivery trucks coming and going down the street. One neighbor ratted them out. Nobody is checking what's going on in garages and basements in Detroit and the police in that kind of place would laugh off a call like that. Not having snooty busybody neighbors (an impossibility in most of the "nice neighborhoods" and "good school districts" that HNers generally buy into) seems to matter more than legality in practice. Nobody else cares if you're legal as long as you're reasonable.

willcipriano 4y ago
My next house is going to be so far from my neighbors that if they were complaining about noise from my basement they would be admitting to trespassing.
kelnos 4y ago
I don't think "there are some place where law enforcement doesn't give a shit" is a good reason to just not care about legality. At the very least, it would behoove someone living in a place Detroit to at least think about it -- and perhaps decide "nah, no one is going to bother me" -- before starting something.

Nextgrid 4y ago

I'm curious, what legal issues are we talking about here? What is not legal about running a business out of one's basement, and what law were they "ratted out" for breaking?

palmetieri2000 4y ago
Not who you're replying to, but I would imagine its an issue of registry and/or zoning depending on the type of business (and maybe tax stuff too). I'm from Australia so probably pretty different laws, but here at least you have to register the businesses address of operations and a part of that process is identifying your 'primary operation or activity', ie what the business does, some operations will be excluded from being conducted in residentially zoned areas regardless (large scale manufacturing, waste disposal & recycling, etc) but most trades will be permitted, I know a number of car mechanics that operate largely from home.
convolvatron 4y ago
compressed gas storage, flammables, chemical storage, hot work, etc are often governed by local law over and above needing a property zoned for light industry.
- robocat 4y ago
  And if you run into any problems with the above that damages the property or other properties, you will be uninsured, and/or sued (and no liability cover).
Lammy 4y ago
You need a "Home Occupation Permit". The details will vary by municipality, but here are the requirements for Sacramento CA, just to pick a random example: https://www.cityofsacramento.org/-/media/Corporate/Files/EDD/Home-Occupation-Permit-Requirements-Revised-9-18-13-(1).pdf https://www.cityofsacramento.org/-/media/Corporate/Files/EDD... "The following occupations are eligible for a Home Occupation Permit subject to restrictions discussed in the next section. If the occupation is followed by an asterisk, the use is also subject to special conditions also discussed below. Eligible home occupations are: 1. General office uses, such as accountant, administrative assistant, answering service, appraiser, architect, attorney, bookkeeper, broker or agent (real estate, insurance, etc.), counselor, consultant, drafting service, engineer, interior decorator, secretarial service, word processing service, and other office uses whose characteristics are substantially similar to those listed. 2. Commission merchant, direct sale product distribution, internet, or mail order business. 3. Dressmaker, tailor, fashion designer. 4. Mobile vehicle glass installation and mobile vehicle detailing.* 5. Pet services, such as pet sitting, pet grooming, pet training, and veterinarian care.* 6. Office for contractor, handyperson, janitorial service, landscape contractor, gardening service.* 7. Artist. 8. Tutoring.* 9. Small equipment, appliance, and computer assembly, repair, or reconstruction.* 10. Healing arts professional, including physician, surgeon, chiropractor, physical therapist, acupuncturist, and somatic practitioner.* 11. Hair stylist, barber, and manicurist. 12. Swimming instructor.* 13. Cottage food operation as defined in section 113758 of the California Health and Safety Code." ================= I saw somebody get dinged for this once for running a Twitch stream out of their garage and accepting donations, one of the only times I've seen the modern "contractor" trend work out in anyone's favor: - https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1036846647945261056 https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1036846647945261056 - https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1040074413599678465 https://nitter.net/happyf333tz/status/1040074413599678465

aaron695 4y ago