4 ms·

Isn't abortion mentioned in the bible as okay though?

by diob 4y ago

fknorangesite 4y ago
People sometimes interpret Numbers 5:11-31 as, among other things, instructions on conducting an abortion. Though that's admittedly unclear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water
- ars 4y ago
  Yes, it's not about an abortion, it's done before she's pregnant, not after. It's about adultery, and the penalty is death for the participants.
judah 4y ago
No. In the Hebrew Bible, Exodus 21, a man who inadvertently causes either a miscarriage or premature birth (the wording is uncertain) is liable for punishment by fine. How much more so someone who deliberately kills an unborn child? The early Christian communities also forbade abortion based on the Biblical idea of preservation of life. The Didache, an early Christian writing circa 70-100 AD, forbids abortion[0]: > "Do no murder children through abortion nor kill them after they have been born." And this should not be surprising, as Christianity was birthed from Judaism, and Judaism forbids abortion in all but extreme cases.[1] [0]: https://blog.judahgabriel.com/2022/07/what-did-early-christian-communities.html https://blog.judahgabriel.com/2022/07/what-did-early-christi... [1]: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-permitted-to-have-an-abortion https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-p...
- ars 4y ago
  The Bible makes it clear that killing an unborn child is not the same as killing someone after they are born - the penalty is monetary vs capital. That doesn't in the slightest mean the Bible permits abortion, but it does mean the Bible views abortion different than murder.
  - judah 4y ago
    Not quite. The text in question deals with either manslaughter (accidental death) or premature birth. Both are distinguishable from murder, the deliberate taking of a life. And this is why the punishment is not capital.
    - ars 4y ago
      That's why the text starts with "And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman" meaning that they are judged as having done it on purpose because he intended to hit someone, he just hit the wrong person. It's not considered accidental. And look at the next verse 23 - if they kill the mother they are judged as a capital crime. The Bible does not consider a fetus a full person, but despite that it does not permit abortion. On a practical level Judaism takes a middle of the road approach and [sometimes] permits abortion before 40 days from conception (or 57 days as is more commonly measured, from LMP).
      - judah 4y ago
        You misunderstand my meaning. By "accidental", I don't mean the quarrel was accidental. We mean the death of the unborn child was accidental. (Even more, the text may not imply death of the child, but rather, premature birth. The Hebrew wording is uncertain.) The fine imposed for either manslaughter or premature birth indicates the Bible values an unborn's life to some extent. But the text doesn't prescribe punishment for deliberate killing of the unborn child. One would presume the punishment would no longer be a fine. (Indeed, the following verses suggest that if a life is taken, the punishment is capital.) Your statement about Judaism's view of abortion is misleading. Judaism generally forbids it, and allows for it in only certain extreme cases, such as to preserve the life of the mother.[0] [0]: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-permitted-to-have-an-abortion https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-p...

Isn't abortion mentioned in the bible as okay though?

by diob 4y ago

Isn't abortion mentioned in the bible as okay though?

People sometimes interpret Numbers 5:11-31 as, among other things, instructions on conducting an abortion. Though that's admittedly unclear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water

ars 4y ago
Yes, it's not about an abortion, it's done before she's pregnant, not after. It's about adultery, and the penalty is death for the participants.

judah 4y ago

No. In the Hebrew Bible, Exodus 21, a man who inadvertently causes either a miscarriage or premature birth (the wording is uncertain) is liable for punishment by fine. How much more so someone who deliberately kills an unborn child? The early Christian communities also forbade abortion based on the Biblical idea of preservation of life. The Didache, an early Christian writing circa 70-100 AD, forbids abortion[0]: > "Do no murder children through abortion nor kill them after they have been born." And this should not be surprising, as Christianity was birthed from Judaism, and Judaism forbids abortion in all but extreme cases.[1] [0]: https://blog.judahgabriel.com/2022/07/what-did-early-christian-communities.html https://blog.judahgabriel.com/2022/07/what-did-early-christi... [1]: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-permitted-to-have-an-abortion https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-p...

ars 4y ago
The Bible makes it clear that killing an unborn child is not the same as killing someone after they are born - the penalty is monetary vs capital. That doesn't in the slightest mean the Bible permits abortion, but it does mean the Bible views abortion different than murder.
- judah 4y ago
  Not quite. The text in question deals with either manslaughter (accidental death) or premature birth. Both are distinguishable from murder, the deliberate taking of a life. And this is why the punishment is not capital.
  - ars 4y ago
    That's why the text starts with "And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman" meaning that they are judged as having done it on purpose because he intended to hit someone, he just hit the wrong person. It's not considered accidental. And look at the next verse 23 - if they kill the mother they are judged as a capital crime. The Bible does not consider a fetus a full person, but despite that it does not permit abortion. On a practical level Judaism takes a middle of the road approach and [sometimes] permits abortion before 40 days from conception (or 57 days as is more commonly measured, from LMP).
    - judah 4y ago
      You misunderstand my meaning. By "accidental", I don't mean the quarrel was accidental. We mean the death of the unborn child was accidental. (Even more, the text may not imply death of the child, but rather, premature birth. The Hebrew wording is uncertain.) The fine imposed for either manslaughter or premature birth indicates the Bible values an unborn's life to some extent. But the text doesn't prescribe punishment for deliberate killing of the unborn child. One would presume the punishment would no longer be a fine. (Indeed, the following verses suggest that if a life is taken, the punishment is capital.) Your statement about Judaism's view of abortion is misleading. Judaism generally forbids it, and allows for it in only certain extreme cases, such as to preserve the life of the mother.[0] [0]: https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-permitted-to-have-an-abortion https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/39015/is-a-jew-p...