4 ms·

In the United States, if I am about to die and need donated organs, blood, bone marrow, etc., you are not required to donate your body to me. This even extends

In the United States, if I am about to die and need donated organs, blood, bone marrow, etc., you are not required to donate your body to me. This even extends to dead bodies, which is why organ donation after death is opt-in. Knowing this, why should a mother be forced to give up her body to another (the baby)?

lettergram 4y ago
Why do you think the other body deserves death because of a mothers whims? Do you see the point? The arguments aren’t framed properly. Have you done proofs in mathematical induction? You typically have n and then prove n+1. Do that with this argument. If you’re okay with 10 week abortion; why not 11 week. You can keep going. Infants at birth are really no different than 1 day old. They have the same fundamental requirements. I don’t care either way frankly, I just pointed out the logic lacking in the debate. The “line in the sand” approach is rather strange to me.
happyopossum 4y ago
Donating an organ generally has lasting, long term consequences for the donor. Childbirth, on the other hand, typically results in none of those.
- etchalon 4y ago
  … are you under the impression child birth doesn't have long term consequences on a person's body and health?
  - happyopossum 4y ago
    Generally speaking, for the vast majority of mothers, childbirth does not have long term negative physical consequences. It can, and I have experienced one of those, however it is the exception, and not the rule.
    - etchalon 4y ago
      Your definition of "negative" must be fairly specific.
    - som 4y ago
      Source? Generally speaking, for the vast majority of HN commenters, authoritative statements on the consequences of childbirth for mothers should be taken with a grain of salt .. given as much credence as you would a third-party anecdote from someone who's closest connection to the source material is a daughter, partner, sister or their own mother. You may be the exception here, but going by the numbers I would expect not.
- ilikehurdles 4y ago
  Of all the detached, disgusting hn libertariantard comments on these topics, this may win for being the most detached.
- somishere 4y ago
  Lol. Edit: to be clear, in my experience childbirth (and what comes after) has undeniably lasting, long term consequences for the "donor" / mother. Not to mention the immediate family, broader community, society at large, even the environment. Certainly more so than any organ donation (in my country at least these tend to occur in the moments surrounding death). To me, the parent comment seemed so removed from reality that a lol summed it up :)
josephcsible 4y ago
She shouldn't be forced to, but her choice is whether or not to conceive the baby. Consider that while you can't be forced to donate an organ, once you choose to do so, you can't later demand that the organ be taken out of the recipient and put back in you.
- pmulard 4y ago
  Just because pregnancy is a possibility of sex does not mean it is a choice. By that logic, getting an STD is a “choice” because its a possibility of sex too, even if the other person lied about having one, broke the condom, etc.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    If you chose to stay out in the sun all day without sunscreen, isn't it fair to say that you chose to get a suntan? In both cases, it's a direct, foreseeable, obvious, and common consequence of the action that was a choice.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  She shouldn't be forced to, but her choice is whether or not to conceive the baby. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of rape? That's without getting into much more controversial points concerning how very much female income is frequently in some way tied to sex (among other issues).
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of rape? Even if you wake up in a bathtub of ice and learn that someone harvested one of your kidneys, you still aren't allowed to kill the recipient to take it back.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      Irrelevant and moves the goal posts.

lettergram 4y ago

Why do you think the other body deserves death because of a mothers whims? Do you see the point? The arguments aren’t framed properly. Have you done proofs in mathematical induction? You typically have n and then prove n+1. Do that with this argument. If you’re okay with 10 week abortion; why not 11 week. You can keep going. Infants at birth are really no different than 1 day old. They have the same fundamental requirements. I don’t care either way frankly, I just pointed out the logic lacking in the debate. The “line in the sand” approach is rather strange to me.

happyopossum 4y ago

Donating an organ generally has lasting, long term consequences for the donor. Childbirth, on the other hand, typically results in none of those.

etchalon 4y ago
… are you under the impression child birth doesn't have long term consequences on a person's body and health?
- happyopossum 4y ago
  Generally speaking, for the vast majority of mothers, childbirth does not have long term negative physical consequences. It can, and I have experienced one of those, however it is the exception, and not the rule.
  - etchalon 4y ago
    Your definition of "negative" must be fairly specific.
  - som 4y ago
    Source? Generally speaking, for the vast majority of HN commenters, authoritative statements on the consequences of childbirth for mothers should be taken with a grain of salt .. given as much credence as you would a third-party anecdote from someone who's closest connection to the source material is a daughter, partner, sister or their own mother. You may be the exception here, but going by the numbers I would expect not.
ilikehurdles 4y ago
Of all the detached, disgusting hn libertariantard comments on these topics, this may win for being the most detached.
somishere 4y ago
Lol. Edit: to be clear, in my experience childbirth (and what comes after) has undeniably lasting, long term consequences for the "donor" / mother. Not to mention the immediate family, broader community, society at large, even the environment. Certainly more so than any organ donation (in my country at least these tend to occur in the moments surrounding death). To me, the parent comment seemed so removed from reality that a lol summed it up :)

josephcsible 4y ago

She shouldn't be forced to, but her choice is whether or not to conceive the baby. Consider that while you can't be forced to donate an organ, once you choose to do so, you can't later demand that the organ be taken out of the recipient and put back in you.

pmulard 4y ago
Just because pregnancy is a possibility of sex does not mean it is a choice. By that logic, getting an STD is a “choice” because its a possibility of sex too, even if the other person lied about having one, broke the condom, etc.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  If you chose to stay out in the sun all day without sunscreen, isn't it fair to say that you chose to get a suntan? In both cases, it's a direct, foreseeable, obvious, and common consequence of the action that was a choice.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
She shouldn't be forced to, but her choice is whether or not to conceive the baby. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of rape? That's without getting into much more controversial points concerning how very much female income is frequently in some way tied to sex (among other issues).
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of rape? Even if you wake up in a bathtub of ice and learn that someone harvested one of your kidneys, you still aren't allowed to kill the recipient to take it back.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    Irrelevant and moves the goal posts.