4 ms·

> Just saying: The threat facing middle-age men is loneliness (as the article states), not lack of male friends per-se. I fit the description of the men in the

> Just saying: The threat facing middle-age men is loneliness (as the article states), not lack of male friends per-se. I fit the description of the men in the article, but I am not lonely now. Perhaps, in a few years, I will realize that my priorities change, that I am lonely then, and I will resent my 30s self for allowing so few male friendships to grow and flourish. I was like that, as well, and am roughly at the same point in life - I turned 40 this year, and was happy with my life with my wife and daughter. I would also have told you I had “a few” male friends I talked to “a few times a year”. Things changed for me, rather abruptly at the start of the year, when my wife decided she was capital-U-unhappy, and that the best way to deal with that was start a relationship with another man. In addition to the swirl of emotions I had to deal with, suddenly and unexpectedly, I quickly found out that I really didn’t have any close friends left, and had basically nobody to talk to about what I was going through. And, that I had nobody to blame but myself for at least that part of the situation I found myself in. My point is not that my situation is typical, or that anything like what I described will happen to you (or anyone else reading this,) but that I found out just how important friendships were when I needed them, and didn’t have them. So, I’ve spent the last few months treating my lack of social interaction like the emergency it is, and I strongly encourage others to do the same. Hopefully, it will just make a person’s life more fulfilling. At the margins, it might keep you sane in a very difficult situation.

lancesells 4y ago
I'm sorry for what you're going through. If you can afford it try paying a therapist to talk to. Just saying things out loud to another human can make a big difference.
- throwaway789738 4y ago
  Thank you. I am seeing a therapist, and am in a men’s therapy group, and started going to a men’s workout group that explicitly exists to foster friendship amongst men. Talking to a therapist helped immensely, in being able to express my thoughts out loud and a) have another person acknowledge that my feelings were valid and b) walk a line between giving me honest feedback about things I needed to change and take responsibility for[0] while not make excuses for my wife’s behavior. That said, my experience was that talking to a therapist was not an immediate thing — I had to find one, and they’re all pretty busy these days — and by the time I needed to talk to someone, I was a suicidal mess and I really needed to talk to someone. I ended up calling my mom, which was honestly pretty humiliating, but that’s what I had to work with. If I had done a better job maintaining my friendships, I think I would have felt able to talk to one of them. It just didn’t seem right to call up someone I didn’t talk to regularly and dump all of my problems on them. 0 — for reasons that would take some time to fully explain, I don’t feel like leaving my relationship is something I can do. In short, I had a fairly traumatic childhood and can’t stomach the thought of not being around to protect my daughter on a daily basis. My therapist made me acknowledge that I am making a choice here, and am not a bystander in my decision to stay.
hungryforcodes 4y ago
If only you left your country to find that there are probably lots of great girls world wide that would appreciate you.
- cultofmetatron 4y ago
  This so much. get out of the country, women are far more appreciative of good men when you leave the western bubble.
- throwaway789738 4y ago
  I do not have any desire to do this, for a variety of reasons. I’m willing to accept the consequences, good and bad, of staying in the United States.
daveslash 4y ago
Thank you for your perspective. I'm sorry to hear about the abrupt change. A change like yours was somewhat what I was vaguely getting at with the suggestion that things might change in the future (who can know for certain). Having "few" male friends is a risk factor (but not the problem itself), whereas the problem itself is the loneliness. I had a relationship fall apart in my early 20s after I'd moved across the U.S. for college. It wasn't marriage, but I had left all of my old friends 2 thousand miles away, and didn't establish new male friends. When the relationship fell apart, I was very very lonely. One would have thought that I would have learned a lesson to ensure that I maintain male friendships; not because I need them necessarily to avoid being lonely (because I'm not lonely, as indicated in my first post), but because it's a risk factor mitigation with no real downside. A follow up to some of the other comments: (a) Regarding moving out of country: Hopefully that's not a serious suggestion. That's simply not possible for a lot of people, nor is it desirable for many, and cross-cultural relationships (while very enriching and rewarding) bring their own challenges to the table (source: my marriage is multi-ethnic/cultural one), let alone cross-national, which has its own geo-political challenges. (b) Regarding moving out of country to find an appreciative woman/partner -- that's also missing the point; the point is not about a romantic relationship - the point is about loneliness. A romantic relationship is wonderful, and for some it can fully address any feelings of loneliness, but not for all. For those of us whose social needs are fully met by our romantic relationships - great for us! But we're at risk of loneliness should they evaporate. (c) Regarding a Therapist - yes, that can certainly help a relationship ending (any many other things), and I too recommend seeing one if you can, but it's also missing the point of the original post, as it's no substitution for actual friendship. @throwaway789738, feel free to reach out to me if you'd like to talk further. Twitter handle's in my HN profile. I'm not very active on Twitter, but I'll respond if I'm pinged.
- em-bee 4y ago
  one advice that i received was that not having friends means that i would put all my needs for social interaction on my wife, which makes any problems in the relationship feel bigger than they might feel otherwise. that person was very concerned that being a foreigner in a small city without any other foreigners would be a bad idea. never mind that living in a bigger city where i'd go out to international tech/networking events multiple times a week didn't help me to find any friends either. that, in part answers the question on whether moving to another country is a good idea. it may work well to find a partner (it did for me) but finding friends is a completely different question. (i am not saying that it can't work, but that it takes careful consideration) i am not on twitter, but my email is in my profile, if anyone would like to talk more.
_tom_ 4y ago
A related thought: if you think you don't need people, then see what happens when you get sick.

lancesells 4y ago

I'm sorry for what you're going through. If you can afford it try paying a therapist to talk to. Just saying things out loud to another human can make a big difference.

throwaway789738 4y ago
Thank you. I am seeing a therapist, and am in a men’s therapy group, and started going to a men’s workout group that explicitly exists to foster friendship amongst men. Talking to a therapist helped immensely, in being able to express my thoughts out loud and a) have another person acknowledge that my feelings were valid and b) walk a line between giving me honest feedback about things I needed to change and take responsibility for[0] while not make excuses for my wife’s behavior. That said, my experience was that talking to a therapist was not an immediate thing — I had to find one, and they’re all pretty busy these days — and by the time I needed to talk to someone, I was a suicidal mess and I really needed to talk to someone. I ended up calling my mom, which was honestly pretty humiliating, but that’s what I had to work with. If I had done a better job maintaining my friendships, I think I would have felt able to talk to one of them. It just didn’t seem right to call up someone I didn’t talk to regularly and dump all of my problems on them. 0 — for reasons that would take some time to fully explain, I don’t feel like leaving my relationship is something I can do. In short, I had a fairly traumatic childhood and can’t stomach the thought of not being around to protect my daughter on a daily basis. My therapist made me acknowledge that I am making a choice here, and am not a bystander in my decision to stay.

hungryforcodes 4y ago

If only you left your country to find that there are probably lots of great girls world wide that would appreciate you.

cultofmetatron 4y ago
This so much. get out of the country, women are far more appreciative of good men when you leave the western bubble.
throwaway789738 4y ago
I do not have any desire to do this, for a variety of reasons. I’m willing to accept the consequences, good and bad, of staying in the United States.

daveslash 4y ago

Thank you for your perspective. I'm sorry to hear about the abrupt change. A change like yours was somewhat what I was vaguely getting at with the suggestion that things might change in the future (who can know for certain). Having "few" male friends is a risk factor (but not the problem itself), whereas the problem itself is the loneliness. I had a relationship fall apart in my early 20s after I'd moved across the U.S. for college. It wasn't marriage, but I had left all of my old friends 2 thousand miles away, and didn't establish new male friends. When the relationship fell apart, I was very very lonely. One would have thought that I would have learned a lesson to ensure that I maintain male friendships; not because I need them necessarily to avoid being lonely (because I'm not lonely, as indicated in my first post), but because it's a risk factor mitigation with no real downside. A follow up to some of the other comments: (a) Regarding moving out of country: Hopefully that's not a serious suggestion. That's simply not possible for a lot of people, nor is it desirable for many, and cross-cultural relationships (while very enriching and rewarding) bring their own challenges to the table (source: my marriage is multi-ethnic/cultural one), let alone cross-national, which has its own geo-political challenges. (b) Regarding moving out of country to find an appreciative woman/partner -- that's also missing the point; the point is not about a romantic relationship - the point is about loneliness. A romantic relationship is wonderful, and for some it can fully address any feelings of loneliness, but not for all. For those of us whose social needs are fully met by our romantic relationships - great for us! But we're at risk of loneliness should they evaporate. (c) Regarding a Therapist - yes, that can certainly help a relationship ending (any many other things), and I too recommend seeing one if you can, but it's also missing the point of the original post, as it's no substitution for actual friendship. @throwaway789738, feel free to reach out to me if you'd like to talk further. Twitter handle's in my HN profile. I'm not very active on Twitter, but I'll respond if I'm pinged.

em-bee 4y ago
one advice that i received was that not having friends means that i would put all my needs for social interaction on my wife, which makes any problems in the relationship feel bigger than they might feel otherwise. that person was very concerned that being a foreigner in a small city without any other foreigners would be a bad idea. never mind that living in a bigger city where i'd go out to international tech/networking events multiple times a week didn't help me to find any friends either. that, in part answers the question on whether moving to another country is a good idea. it may work well to find a partner (it did for me) but finding friends is a completely different question. (i am not saying that it can't work, but that it takes careful consideration) i am not on twitter, but my email is in my profile, if anyone would like to talk more.

_tom_ 4y ago

A related thought: if you think you don't need people, then see what happens when you get sick.