4 ms·

How do you protect against these kinds of attacks? Layers of shielding/faraday cages?

detaro 4y ago
Don't let an attacker run code on your system in the first place. (yes, shielding would of course help against this specific attack, but you have a long list of things to worry about before this kind of thing even becomes relevant)
tracker1 4y ago
It wouldn't take much shielding at all for this specific one... you could line a case with a faraday mesh material which would probably me enough for most similar attacks. That said, for most of these kinds of things, you have to get a malicious payload on such a system. The stuxnet approach is one way, if you have specific targets. Aside from that, you pretty much need phyxical access and be able to load a malicious software. At that point, you may as well stick a small usb bluetooth/wireless dongle, depending on the situation... assuming it's a standard desktop, there's a good chance of unused USB 2 header you could piggy back on. At that point, an actual faraday cage or mesh on the room in question would be the next practical vector. Some secure buildings are up to 6' thick walls, no communications out except through known devices on wired ports with software checking in place (seen this in finance).
- zaarn 4y ago
  Even a faraday cage would be insufficient if I can get a powermeter into a power outlet on the same circuit. Or if we're talking about a datacenter, I just need a good electrical measurement device (Voltage, Amperage, Frequency, PF) on the cable outside. I can, in this example, just have the computer use more power to signal a 1 and less power to signal a 0. For a DC I just ramp up the entire DC load. Do that over the span of a week or so to make it less noticable.
- mindcrime 4y ago
  At that point, you may as well stick a small usb bluetooth/wireless dongle, depending on the situation... Right, but there are places where if you stick an unapproved USB device into a computer's USB port, a nice person from security taps you on the shoulder 10 minutes later. In those cases, you may well have the ability to run code on the computer, but no ability to attach removable storage. It's at least plausible (if not exactly probable) that something like this could come into play for somebody looking to exfiltrate a small amount of data from a system they have access to. I'm thinking something closer to (but perhaps not exactly) like the Edward Snowden kind of scenario. Something where you access to the computer, but can't use the other common place means of getting data off of the machine and out the door. Yeah, it's a stretch, but it's not beyond the bounds of imagination.
  - tracker1 4y ago
    How do you get your malware payload on the computer in the first place?
    - mindcrime 4y ago
      Download it from the Internet? Key in the source by hand and compile it locally? Type in the bytes with a hex editor? I mean, there's a lot of possible ways. Note "possible", perhaps even "plausible", but maybe not "probable". And a lot of it would come down to the details of the local situation. And if you're wondering, I can confirm that I've definitely worked at places where you were not allowed to plug in a USB device (I literally saw a co-worker get the "tap on the shoulder" from Security for doing that), but yet many (most?) Internet downloads were allowed. Does that make sense? Arguably not. Does it happen in the real world? Absolutely yes.
      - tracker1 4y ago
        Was in a similar situation before... Was allowed to use my personal device tethered to my cell on the other side of a table... if I needed to look anything up online. Copying code files from read text is not fun at all, spinning in the chair and moving over regularly... didn't have to do it too much... but that's what higher security means in some places. Nothing touches the internal network but your hands (so to speak).
ngneer 4y ago
Same as with all attacks, you protect against them by making the return lower than the cost...
sebazzz 4y ago
Isn't a metal PC case already a faraday cage?

Don't let an attacker run code on your system in the first place. (yes, shielding would of course help against this specific attack, but you have a long list of things to worry about before this kind of thing even becomes relevant)

tracker1 4y ago

It wouldn't take much shielding at all for this specific one... you could line a case with a faraday mesh material which would probably me enough for most similar attacks. That said, for most of these kinds of things, you have to get a malicious payload on such a system. The stuxnet approach is one way, if you have specific targets. Aside from that, you pretty much need phyxical access and be able to load a malicious software. At that point, you may as well stick a small usb bluetooth/wireless dongle, depending on the situation... assuming it's a standard desktop, there's a good chance of unused USB 2 header you could piggy back on. At that point, an actual faraday cage or mesh on the room in question would be the next practical vector. Some secure buildings are up to 6' thick walls, no communications out except through known devices on wired ports with software checking in place (seen this in finance).

zaarn 4y ago
Even a faraday cage would be insufficient if I can get a powermeter into a power outlet on the same circuit. Or if we're talking about a datacenter, I just need a good electrical measurement device (Voltage, Amperage, Frequency, PF) on the cable outside. I can, in this example, just have the computer use more power to signal a 1 and less power to signal a 0. For a DC I just ramp up the entire DC load. Do that over the span of a week or so to make it less noticable.
mindcrime 4y ago
At that point, you may as well stick a small usb bluetooth/wireless dongle, depending on the situation... Right, but there are places where if you stick an unapproved USB device into a computer's USB port, a nice person from security taps you on the shoulder 10 minutes later. In those cases, you may well have the ability to run code on the computer, but no ability to attach removable storage. It's at least plausible (if not exactly probable) that something like this could come into play for somebody looking to exfiltrate a small amount of data from a system they have access to. I'm thinking something closer to (but perhaps not exactly) like the Edward Snowden kind of scenario. Something where you access to the computer, but can't use the other common place means of getting data off of the machine and out the door. Yeah, it's a stretch, but it's not beyond the bounds of imagination.
- tracker1 4y ago
  How do you get your malware payload on the computer in the first place?
  - mindcrime 4y ago
    Download it from the Internet? Key in the source by hand and compile it locally? Type in the bytes with a hex editor? I mean, there's a lot of possible ways. Note "possible", perhaps even "plausible", but maybe not "probable". And a lot of it would come down to the details of the local situation. And if you're wondering, I can confirm that I've definitely worked at places where you were not allowed to plug in a USB device (I literally saw a co-worker get the "tap on the shoulder" from Security for doing that), but yet many (most?) Internet downloads were allowed. Does that make sense? Arguably not. Does it happen in the real world? Absolutely yes.
    - tracker1 4y ago
      Was in a similar situation before... Was allowed to use my personal device tethered to my cell on the other side of a table... if I needed to look anything up online. Copying code files from read text is not fun at all, spinning in the chair and moving over regularly... didn't have to do it too much... but that's what higher security means in some places. Nothing touches the internal network but your hands (so to speak).

ngneer 4y ago

Same as with all attacks, you protect against them by making the return lower than the cost...

sebazzz 4y ago

Isn't a metal PC case already a faraday cage?