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That's fair, I might have to revisit the number input issue. I totally get your complaint. Experimenting with the number input was a learning experience. I buil

That's fair, I might have to revisit the number input issue. I totally get your complaint. Experimenting with the number input was a learning experience. I built Keenforms with React, and both React and Angular have some strange behaviors related to number inputs.

radiojasper 4y ago
As a web designer with a speciality in a11y, it hurts that you deemed this not important enough to find the true cause of your issue with the number input. I hope you can revisit this in a future update!
- padseeker 4y ago
  I'll see what I can do, but HONESTLY the number input has issues. I should write an article about it. I get what you are saying. However sometimes you have to circumvent the limitations of the browser to get it to do what you want it to. Or you have to write a ridiculous amount of code to compensate for that problem. It still accepts number values. I made a decision based on the problems I was having, I can revisit it and rectify it IF ITS POSSIBLE while maintaining existing functionality.
- dingleberry420 4y ago
  https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-design-system-team-changed-the-input-type-for-numbers/ https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-des...
  - peterangular 4y ago
    Linking that article from 2020 is problematic - please read my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468
    - padseeker 4y ago
      So I started writing code for this back in 2017, and I discovered a lot of issues with the number input back in 2019 so I never revisited it. So I'm glad certain issues have been resolved, but there are still others. I could probably write an article just about why the number input is terrible.
      - peterangular 4y ago
        > I could probably write an article just about why the number input is terrible. And, with as many people are saying outright "don't use numeric inputs" I would very much want to understand what issues you encountered, when, and, on what platform. Otherwise it sorta feels like FUD in 2022 to push against numeric inputs without specifying the actual issues. In other words, please do write an article. Although I'm skeptical, I would read it with an open mind + in good faith.
        padseeker 4y ago
        Hey I just wrote a blog post of why the number input is terrible; https://blog.keenforms.com/why-the-number-input-is-the-worst-input/ https://blog.keenforms.com/why-the-number-input-is-the-worst... I also shared it on hacker news. I hope this helps.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > As a web designer with a speciality in a11y This is hard to believe - as I remark above, the accessibility issues with the number input type are extreme. It's much, much worse than any alternative, including a plain text input type. `<input type="number">` is something that might be recommended blindly on the basis of a checklist, but not something that might be recommended by anyone familiar with relevant concepts.
  - peterangular 4y ago
    > > As a web designer with a speciality in a11y > This is hard to believe Oof. Even if they're outright wrong they could still have lots of experience with accessibility. On HN we typically assume good faith even when we disagree with each other. That being said, I agree with them. The arguments made against the "numeric" field here are out of date, and not something I have ever ran into with my own testing. I'm not claiming there are no quirks, or issues... but I find it so weird that everyone is throwing modern accessibility under the bus here for what seems to be edge cases... from 2020. > `<input type="number">` is something that might be recommended blindly on the basis of a checklist, but not something that might be recommended by anyone familiar with relevant concepts. Can you please provide sources why it is not recommended to use numeric input types? I've read the .gov.uk article and it's from 2020 and many of the issues are resolved in the years since it came out.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      > I've read the .gov.uk article and it's from 2020 and many of the issues are resolved in the years since it came out. > please read my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468 Reading that response was a surreal experience. "Many of the issues are resolved since it came out"... except for the important ones? Here are the issues you rebutted: - A number input blocks dictation and selection when using Dragon Naturally Speaking - number inputs appear unlabeled in NVDA's element list - plus, they look weird in NVDA's object navigation - and they're unlabeled when using nvda+tab But you appear to have confused the article section titled "Accessibility" with the concept of accessibility. Here are some accessibility issues, also mentioned in the article, that you didn't bother to address: - Values in a number input are automatically rounded or even converted to exponential notation by the browser. Because while it might look like your credit card number is 4000 0566 5566 5556, what you want to put into the form is 4.000056655665556e+15. - Safari 5.1 inserts commas into "number"s with at least 16 digits. (Yep, Safari 5.1 is old. It was also old in 2020. Doesn't make this less of a disaster for users on Safari 5.1.) - Values within a number input change at random if the user's mouse has a mouse wheel. Between the issues that have been fixed, and the issues that haven't been fixed... which ones sound like they're worse problems? Imagine this changelog: 1. NVDA now has better visibility into number input elements. 2. number input elements still don't work. > The arguments made against the "numeric" field here are out of date, and not something I have ever ran into with my own testing. You need to do some real testing. It's not hard to run into the mousewheel issue. I've run into it on multiple occasions. It is not necessary to dispatch mouse events to child elements - anyone who clicks on the input element to focus there has now positioned their cursor directly over the input element.

radiojasper 4y ago

As a web designer with a speciality in a11y, it hurts that you deemed this not important enough to find the true cause of your issue with the number input. I hope you can revisit this in a future update!

padseeker 4y ago
I'll see what I can do, but HONESTLY the number input has issues. I should write an article about it. I get what you are saying. However sometimes you have to circumvent the limitations of the browser to get it to do what you want it to. Or you have to write a ridiculous amount of code to compensate for that problem. It still accepts number values. I made a decision based on the problems I was having, I can revisit it and rectify it IF ITS POSSIBLE while maintaining existing functionality.
dingleberry420 4y ago
https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-design-system-team-changed-the-input-type-for-numbers/ https://technology.blog.gov.uk/2020/02/24/why-the-gov-uk-des...
- peterangular 4y ago
  Linking that article from 2020 is problematic - please read my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468
  - padseeker 4y ago
    So I started writing code for this back in 2017, and I discovered a lot of issues with the number input back in 2019 so I never revisited it. So I'm glad certain issues have been resolved, but there are still others. I could probably write an article just about why the number input is terrible.
    - peterangular 4y ago
      > I could probably write an article just about why the number input is terrible. And, with as many people are saying outright "don't use numeric inputs" I would very much want to understand what issues you encountered, when, and, on what platform. Otherwise it sorta feels like FUD in 2022 to push against numeric inputs without specifying the actual issues. In other words, please do write an article. Although I'm skeptical, I would read it with an open mind + in good faith.
      - padseeker 4y ago
        Hey I just wrote a blog post of why the number input is terrible; https://blog.keenforms.com/why-the-number-input-is-the-worst-input/ https://blog.keenforms.com/why-the-number-input-is-the-worst... I also shared it on hacker news. I hope this helps.
thaumasiotes 4y ago
> As a web designer with a speciality in a11y This is hard to believe - as I remark above, the accessibility issues with the number input type are extreme. It's much, much worse than any alternative, including a plain text input type. `<input type="number">` is something that might be recommended blindly on the basis of a checklist, but not something that might be recommended by anyone familiar with relevant concepts.
- peterangular 4y ago
  > > As a web designer with a speciality in a11y > This is hard to believe Oof. Even if they're outright wrong they could still have lots of experience with accessibility. On HN we typically assume good faith even when we disagree with each other. That being said, I agree with them. The arguments made against the "numeric" field here are out of date, and not something I have ever ran into with my own testing. I'm not claiming there are no quirks, or issues... but I find it so weird that everyone is throwing modern accessibility under the bus here for what seems to be edge cases... from 2020. > `<input type="number">` is something that might be recommended blindly on the basis of a checklist, but not something that might be recommended by anyone familiar with relevant concepts. Can you please provide sources why it is not recommended to use numeric input types? I've read the .gov.uk article and it's from 2020 and many of the issues are resolved in the years since it came out.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > I've read the .gov.uk article and it's from 2020 and many of the issues are resolved in the years since it came out. > please read my response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32141468 Reading that response was a surreal experience. "Many of the issues are resolved since it came out"... except for the important ones? Here are the issues you rebutted: - A number input blocks dictation and selection when using Dragon Naturally Speaking - number inputs appear unlabeled in NVDA's element list - plus, they look weird in NVDA's object navigation - and they're unlabeled when using nvda+tab But you appear to have confused the article section titled "Accessibility" with the concept of accessibility. Here are some accessibility issues, also mentioned in the article, that you didn't bother to address: - Values in a number input are automatically rounded or even converted to exponential notation by the browser. Because while it might look like your credit card number is 4000 0566 5566 5556, what you want to put into the form is 4.000056655665556e+15. - Safari 5.1 inserts commas into "number"s with at least 16 digits. (Yep, Safari 5.1 is old. It was also old in 2020. Doesn't make this less of a disaster for users on Safari 5.1.) - Values within a number input change at random if the user's mouse has a mouse wheel. Between the issues that have been fixed, and the issues that haven't been fixed... which ones sound like they're worse problems? Imagine this changelog: 1. NVDA now has better visibility into number input elements. 2. number input elements still don't work. > The arguments made against the "numeric" field here are out of date, and not something I have ever ran into with my own testing. You need to do some real testing. It's not hard to run into the mousewheel issue. I've run into it on multiple occasions. It is not necessary to dispatch mouse events to child elements - anyone who clicks on the input element to focus there has now positioned their cursor directly over the input element.