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> declaration of all people being equal is performative The Declaration of Independence states that it is self-evident. This seems to preclude the possibility

by n4r9 4y ago

> declaration of all people being equal is performative The Declaration of Independence states that it is self-evident. This seems to preclude the possibility of it being performative, without some significant mental gymnastics.

bratbag 4y ago
Or more simply requires acknowledging that the declaration of independance is in on the performance.
XorNot 4y ago
"We hold these truths to be self-evident..." The statement is explicitly performative. It is a statement of belief, not fact.
- foldr 4y ago
  The truth of the statements is presupposed (“these truths”). It’s only the self-evidence of their truth that’s asserted. There’s no component of the statement that’s performative in Austin’s sense (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_utterance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_utterance). For example, a statement of the form “A holds B to be C” is clearly truth evaluable, and so doesn’t qualify as performative.
mdpye 4y ago
I'm pretty sure that the "all men" in that document wasn't literally "all men" (even, never mind all people) either, so perhaps we wouldn't consider it the last word on the subject.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
The fact that you need to refer to the Declaration of Independence makes it performative. Otherwise it would just be self-evident.
- xbar 4y ago
  I think you are saying that as soon as anyone says it is performative, it is performative, even if otherwise it is self-evident. Your logic system strongly supports bad-faith arguments.
- IncRnd 4y ago
  A person is the same person when their limbs are removed. It is self-evident that equality of people is not performative.
- spicymaki 4y ago
  It is self-evident because it is a moral proposition. It is the same as saying stealing your friend's cherished pet is wrong. It is obvious and needs no more explanation.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    What if they’re bad owners?
    - spicymaki 4y ago
      Hah that is why I said cherished. It assumes they care and protect the dog.
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        What if they’re just incompetent
namlem 4y ago
The Declaration of Independence holds no legal weight.

by n4r9 4y ago

bratbag 4y ago

Or more simply requires acknowledging that the declaration of independance is in on the performance.

XorNot 4y ago

"We hold these truths to be self-evident..." The statement is explicitly performative. It is a statement of belief, not fact.

foldr 4y ago
The truth of the statements is presupposed (“these truths”). It’s only the self-evidence of their truth that’s asserted. There’s no component of the statement that’s performative in Austin’s sense (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_utterance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_utterance). For example, a statement of the form “A holds B to be C” is clearly truth evaluable, and so doesn’t qualify as performative.

mdpye 4y ago

I'm pretty sure that the "all men" in that document wasn't literally "all men" (even, never mind all people) either, so perhaps we wouldn't consider it the last word on the subject.

xboxnolifes 4y ago

The fact that you need to refer to the Declaration of Independence makes it performative. Otherwise it would just be self-evident.

xbar 4y ago
I think you are saying that as soon as anyone says it is performative, it is performative, even if otherwise it is self-evident. Your logic system strongly supports bad-faith arguments.
IncRnd 4y ago
A person is the same person when their limbs are removed. It is self-evident that equality of people is not performative.
spicymaki 4y ago
It is self-evident because it is a moral proposition. It is the same as saying stealing your friend's cherished pet is wrong. It is obvious and needs no more explanation.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  What if they’re bad owners?
  - spicymaki 4y ago
    Hah that is why I said cherished. It assumes they care and protect the dog.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      What if they’re just incompetent

namlem 4y ago

The Declaration of Independence holds no legal weight.