5 ms·
why not integrate the ram into the package like apple does anyway and use a slightly larger SoC Cooling solution for the chips? Or just attach headspreaders to
by dtx1 4y ago
why not integrate the ram into the package like apple does anyway and use a slightly larger SoC Cooling solution for the chips? Or just attach headspreaders to ram modules (like gaming modules) and add a fan for them like servers already do due to their general front to back airflow design. The only thing you can't do anymore is relying on the passive cooling of the chips own surface, something CPUs can't do anymore since the early 90s
- SketchySeaBeast 4y agoBig old SoC really do seem like the future. CPU, GPU, RAM, motherboard controllers, throw all those different problem onto a big old die and optimize for cooling that guy.
- foobiekr 4y agoSOCs are harder, not easier, to cool.
- AtlasBarfed 4y agoYeah I don't understand why a dedicated fan and other basic CPU cooling techniques don't apply here. It's probably because the DRAM industry doesn't want to change form factors and standards to a substantial degree... ... probably because they do the bare minimum to keep up with CPU design and routinely get busted for cartel price fixing and predatory pricing.
- dtx1 4y agoI mean literally this https://youtu.be/TFE9wfAfudE?t=611 https://youtu.be/TFE9wfAfudE?t=611 Problem solved
- toast0 4y agoApple does a ram on top system right? That's not going to be viable for servers ror two big reasons: a) it would big a major capacity limitation; you're not fitting 8-16 DIMMs worth of ram ontop of the CPU. Sure, not everyone fills up their servers, but many do. b) if you put the ram on top of the cpu, all of the cpu heat needs to transit the ram, which practically means you need a low heat cpu. This works for Apple, their laptop cooling design has never been appropriate for a high heat cpu, but servers manage to cool hundred watt chips in 1U through massive airflow, so high heat enables more computation. Heatspreaders may make their way into server ram though (although not so big, cause a lot of servers are 1U) Otoh, the article says > ‘From zero to 85°C, it operates one way, and at 85° to 90°C, it starts to change,'” noted Bill Gervasi, principal systems architect at Nantero and author of the JEDEC DDR5 NVRAM spec. “From 90° to 95°C, it starts to panic. Above 95°C, you’re going to start losing data, so you’d better start shutting the system down.” CPUs commonly operate in that temperature range, but RAM doesn't pull that much power, so it doesn't get too much above ambient as long as there's some airflow, and if ambient hits 50C, most people are going to shutdown their severs anyway.
- kube-system 4y agoMaybe we could architect servers with more CPU packages and fewer cores per package? Maybe instead of 32 RAM packages and 4 CPU packages, we could have 16 CPU packages each with onboard RAM?
- nsteel 4y agoWill these CPUs talk to each other with a similar latency hit as we get from talking to DRAM today?
- __alexs 4y agoThe M1/M2 has the RAM on the same package as the CPU but it's not actually on top of the die, it's adjacent to it. Here's a pic of one someone on reddit delided https://imgur.com/a/RhGk1xw https://imgur.com/a/RhGk1xw Obviously this is still a lot of heat in a small space but it does mean the cooler gets to have good coupling with the die rather than going all the way through some DRAM first.
- toast0 4y agoThat's more tractable. Gotta make sure everything hits the same z-height and the contact patches are right... But you still have a capacity issue.