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Almost anything I read that's titled as "X is being removed, and why that's a Good Thing" feels like propaganda. It's as though the article is written to convin

Almost anything I read that's titled as "X is being removed, and why that's a Good Thing" feels like propaganda. It's as though the article is written to convince me that it's a good thing, rather then to inform me about these new options that I would actually want. >“The vision is, you can get a phone from anyone, and as you’re activating the device, you pick your service operator and off you go,” But you will need to already have a phone subscription at that point. All that's being made "easier" is that now I'm not moving a physical chip from one device to the other, but instead I'm using a UI to switch service providers. This UI is almost guaranteed to offer a terrible user experience. I'd love to be wrong, but I simply don't believe in the ability of these companies to offer a well-designed UX. My cynicism tells me that the move is entirely made to control your phone more.

izacus 4y ago
eSIM experience with my European providers: * First ones eSim generator system fails with "something went wrong" after deactivating the previous SIM. Leaving me without ability to call or message someone for the whole weekend until their support comes back on. * Second one wants me to come physically to their office during working hours to move eSIM to another phone. The closest one is currently 400+ km away. * The third one requires a phone call to reactivate a new phone and will throttle those requests to a few per year. They don't care if you commonly use more than one phone. In general, the experience is outright abusive to users in comparison to swapping a simple tiny chip card.
- RL_Quine 4y ago
  On the most recent iOS releases moving a eSIM is done yourself and is just a couple of button clicks.
  - izacus 4y ago
    Not on any of those carriers.
  - gruturo 4y ago
    Unfortunately this does not work automatically - it requires carrier side support. It will hopefully be widespread one day, but it may be years still.
    - RL_Quine 4y ago
      It’ll be closer than you think. Large carriers in the US don’t expect to be using physical SIMs very shortly.
      - gruturo 4y ago
        That may very well be true - but they won't go to great (or any, really) lengths to make users' lives easier unless they see a competitive advantage in doing so, or are forced by (threat of) regulation.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > That may very well be true - but they won't go to great (or any, really) lengths to make users' lives easier unless they see a competitive advantage in doing so, or are forced by (threat of) regulation. And that may take awhile. IIRC, it took decades of user-hostile suckage for one underdog carrier to try to compete on customer experience (T-Mobile). IIRC, they've since merged with the other underdog (Sprint), so I expect things to revert to the mean (user-hostile suckage).
- bogomipz 4y ago
  Can't you have multiple eSims active on your phone though? For example with the latest iPhones you can have two eSims active or one eSIM and one physical nano SIM.[1] If that was the case couldn't you activate the new SIM without deactivating the previous eSIM? [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044
  - izacus 4y ago
    Carriers don't allow multiple active SIMs without special exception (e.g. paying additional subscription). Not sure how your solution factors into the fact that each subscriber number is only allowed to have one active SIM on the side of a carrier.
    - bogomipz 4y ago
      I may have misunderstood your use case. I was thinking of the use case of traveling where you would buy a local SIM where it's actually two separate accounts. In that case you can just switch the profile. You can have a work number and personal number or your home carrier and a local carrier if you are traveling. See: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044
      - izacus 4y ago
        No, the use-case is moving existing number to a new phone because the current one was replaced, fell into the toilet, broke, died or just wasn't the right fashionable color of the day.
  - MishaalRahman 4y ago
    You can have multiple eSIM profiles downloaded, but very few phones support having multiple eSIM profiles active at the same time. That would require having two eSIM chips either internally or externally. Google's working on Multiple Enabled Profiles (MEP) for Android 13, which would make that possible. Not sure what approach Apple's already using for its iPhones.
- oynqr 4y ago
  My experience included the profile mysteriously disappearing from my phone and then having to wait two weeks for a new one to arrive over snail mail, because the provider "could not verify my identity". I called from the landline that was ran by said provider.
scohesc 4y ago
I feel like the whole "X is going away, here's why it's good" thing is just some kind of template journalists use for articles where they know there's going to be large amounts of outrage or "why?!" felt by their readers. Definitely not being used to comfort the reader. More cynical viewpoints I've seen is that articles are being written like this to "brainwash" people into agreeing with taking their rights away or to convince people something horrible isn't happening behind the scenes and to 'stay calm'. I don't know - every time I read a headline like that I feel like clicking on it to see how horrible a justification a journalist has to say that inflation/supply chain problems/removing physical SIMs/etc. is good and we should like it. Maybe that's all they need to get the pittance of ad-revenue.
- bogomipz 4y ago
  >"I feel like the whole "X is going away, here's why it's good" thing is just some kind of template journalists use for articles where they know there's going to be large amounts of outrage or "why?!" felt by their readers." Agreed and that template and content is often provided to them verbatim by the corporation or interest group that sent them the press release.
tablespoon 4y ago
> Almost anything I read that's titled as "X is being removed, and why that's a Good Thing" feels like propaganda. It's as though the article is written to convince me that it's a good thing, rather then to inform me about these new options that I would actually want. Exactly. If it was actually a good thing, they probably wouldn't have to tell you it was. It would be obvious and everyone would be happy. IMHO, most people are happy with improvements and will happily accept them. However many "improvements" are actually regressions or have significant regressive component. For instance: "Rejoice! We replaced your outdated legacy system with a re-engineered system that doesn't work and has half the features!" or "Rejoice! We've shifted some burden off of us and onto you!"
asdajksah2123 4y ago
SIM cards have been amazingly painless for over 2 decades. In over 2 decades SIM cards were never as painful as eSIMs are at their least painful. In many countries govts have added KYC rules for getting a phone, etc., but to illustrate how excellent SIM cards were, it used to be that in most non CDMA dominant countries, you could walk out into the airport, put a few dollars in a vending machine, and get a SIM card that you could slip into your phone and have a local phone number immediately.

izacus 4y ago

eSIM experience with my European providers: * First ones eSim generator system fails with "something went wrong" after deactivating the previous SIM. Leaving me without ability to call or message someone for the whole weekend until their support comes back on. * Second one wants me to come physically to their office during working hours to move eSIM to another phone. The closest one is currently 400+ km away. * The third one requires a phone call to reactivate a new phone and will throttle those requests to a few per year. They don't care if you commonly use more than one phone. In general, the experience is outright abusive to users in comparison to swapping a simple tiny chip card.

RL_Quine 4y ago
On the most recent iOS releases moving a eSIM is done yourself and is just a couple of button clicks.
- izacus 4y ago
  Not on any of those carriers.
- gruturo 4y ago
  Unfortunately this does not work automatically - it requires carrier side support. It will hopefully be widespread one day, but it may be years still.
  - RL_Quine 4y ago
    It’ll be closer than you think. Large carriers in the US don’t expect to be using physical SIMs very shortly.
    - gruturo 4y ago
      That may very well be true - but they won't go to great (or any, really) lengths to make users' lives easier unless they see a competitive advantage in doing so, or are forced by (threat of) regulation.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > That may very well be true - but they won't go to great (or any, really) lengths to make users' lives easier unless they see a competitive advantage in doing so, or are forced by (threat of) regulation. And that may take awhile. IIRC, it took decades of user-hostile suckage for one underdog carrier to try to compete on customer experience (T-Mobile). IIRC, they've since merged with the other underdog (Sprint), so I expect things to revert to the mean (user-hostile suckage).
bogomipz 4y ago
Can't you have multiple eSims active on your phone though? For example with the latest iPhones you can have two eSims active or one eSIM and one physical nano SIM.[1] If that was the case couldn't you activate the new SIM without deactivating the previous eSIM? [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044
- izacus 4y ago
  Carriers don't allow multiple active SIMs without special exception (e.g. paying additional subscription). Not sure how your solution factors into the fact that each subscriber number is only allowed to have one active SIM on the side of a carrier.
  - bogomipz 4y ago
    I may have misunderstood your use case. I was thinking of the use case of traveling where you would buy a local SIM where it's actually two separate accounts. In that case you can just switch the profile. You can have a work number and personal number or your home carrier and a local carrier if you are traveling. See: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044
    - izacus 4y ago
      No, the use-case is moving existing number to a new phone because the current one was replaced, fell into the toilet, broke, died or just wasn't the right fashionable color of the day.
- MishaalRahman 4y ago
  You can have multiple eSIM profiles downloaded, but very few phones support having multiple eSIM profiles active at the same time. That would require having two eSIM chips either internally or externally. Google's working on Multiple Enabled Profiles (MEP) for Android 13, which would make that possible. Not sure what approach Apple's already using for its iPhones.
oynqr 4y ago
My experience included the profile mysteriously disappearing from my phone and then having to wait two weeks for a new one to arrive over snail mail, because the provider "could not verify my identity". I called from the landline that was ran by said provider.

scohesc 4y ago

I feel like the whole "X is going away, here's why it's good" thing is just some kind of template journalists use for articles where they know there's going to be large amounts of outrage or "why?!" felt by their readers. Definitely not being used to comfort the reader. More cynical viewpoints I've seen is that articles are being written like this to "brainwash" people into agreeing with taking their rights away or to convince people something horrible isn't happening behind the scenes and to 'stay calm'. I don't know - every time I read a headline like that I feel like clicking on it to see how horrible a justification a journalist has to say that inflation/supply chain problems/removing physical SIMs/etc. is good and we should like it. Maybe that's all they need to get the pittance of ad-revenue.

bogomipz 4y ago
>"I feel like the whole "X is going away, here's why it's good" thing is just some kind of template journalists use for articles where they know there's going to be large amounts of outrage or "why?!" felt by their readers." Agreed and that template and content is often provided to them verbatim by the corporation or interest group that sent them the press release.

tablespoon 4y ago

> Almost anything I read that's titled as "X is being removed, and why that's a Good Thing" feels like propaganda. It's as though the article is written to convince me that it's a good thing, rather then to inform me about these new options that I would actually want. Exactly. If it was actually a good thing, they probably wouldn't have to tell you it was. It would be obvious and everyone would be happy. IMHO, most people are happy with improvements and will happily accept them. However many "improvements" are actually regressions or have significant regressive component. For instance: "Rejoice! We replaced your outdated legacy system with a re-engineered system that doesn't work and has half the features!" or "Rejoice! We've shifted some burden off of us and onto you!"

asdajksah2123 4y ago

SIM cards have been amazingly painless for over 2 decades. In over 2 decades SIM cards were never as painful as eSIMs are at their least painful. In many countries govts have added KYC rules for getting a phone, etc., but to illustrate how excellent SIM cards were, it used to be that in most non CDMA dominant countries, you could walk out into the airport, put a few dollars in a vending machine, and get a SIM card that you could slip into your phone and have a local phone number immediately.