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> There is zero possibility that anyone at Apple is spending any time [..] for the purpose of hindering efforts like Asahi Linux. Ah, that argument. Apple is,

> There is zero possibility that anyone at Apple is spending any time [..] for the purpose of hindering efforts like Asahi Linux. Ah, that argument. Apple is, like Microsoft, actively trying to get people to run Linux and applications _under_ their OS -- Microsoft is shipping an entire Linux emulator for graphical applications and Apple is going to ship an x86 Linux emulator in a future release too. And then, both companies have a lot of incentive that you continue to run their operating system as your main OS -- they can show you ads that way, they can continue to sell your their subscriptions and services, their partners', etc. Combine the two, and I no longer believe the argument that "they couldn't care less about people who run Linux".

quesera 4y ago
Of course Apple wants macOS to be your preference. They sell hardware and services that depend on macOS. Things Apple does to make macOS more useful or appealing are in service of that goal. Absolutely. I have not heard, and cannot find, any rumors about Apple shipping a Linux emulator. Links? Regardless, I would not argue that Apple doesn't care about Linux. I would argue that Apple does not overcomplicate their hardware engineering with the goal of preventing people from running Linux on their hardware. And that is what I said. macOS drives hardware sales. Apple makes money on hardware sales. They will not compromise their ability to change hardware or software to support a tiny noncommercial project, of course! But at the end of the day, thinking as commercially as I can: Apple would prefer that you buy a M1 Mac and run Asahi, than buy a Dell running Windows or Linux instead. They have no opportunity to sell you macOS services in either case, but if you buy the M1, they capture hardware sales revenue.
- AshamedCaptain 4y ago
  > I have not heard, and cannot find, any rumors about Apple shipping a Linux emulator. Links? It was even on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 , https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/macos-ventura-will-extend-rosetta-support-to-linux-virtual-machines/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/macos-ventura-will-e... > macOS drives hardware sales. Apple makes money on hardware sales. Not as clear specially when the money they make from macOS hardware sales is actually less than what they make from services or iOS hardware sales. The era when we had an open computing standards Apple that tried to interoperate with others is long gone. This is the era of the captive Apple who is trying to bind you into their ecosystem, and I won't believe the "0%" argument any more than I believe it for MS.
  - halostatue 4y ago
    The extension of Rosetta2 to work in virtualization contexts is not the same as Apple shipping a Linux emulator / environment like WSL / WSL2.
    - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
      Please note that I said a x86 Linux emulator, and it is exactly that. It is: 1. A Linux binary, 2. Which translates Linux/ELF code from x86 to ARM, 3. And translates Linux x86 syscalls to amd64 Linux, 4. With the explicit intention of allowing the user to run x86 Linux binaries under macOS. If you want to be this level of nitpicking, then WSL is not a Linux emulator either; after all, they also require an existing Linux kernel to work, and may not even emulate anything whatsoever. But BOTH WSL2 and this emulator serve _exactly_ the serve purpose: to facilitate running of Linux binaries under a native host OS that is not Linux, thus my point.

quesera 4y ago

Of course Apple wants macOS to be your preference. They sell hardware and services that depend on macOS. Things Apple does to make macOS more useful or appealing are in service of that goal. Absolutely. I have not heard, and cannot find, any rumors about Apple shipping a Linux emulator. Links? Regardless, I would not argue that Apple doesn't care about Linux. I would argue that Apple does not overcomplicate their hardware engineering with the goal of preventing people from running Linux on their hardware. And that is what I said. macOS drives hardware sales. Apple makes money on hardware sales. They will not compromise their ability to change hardware or software to support a tiny noncommercial project, of course! But at the end of the day, thinking as commercially as I can: Apple would prefer that you buy a M1 Mac and run Asahi, than buy a Dell running Windows or Linux instead. They have no opportunity to sell you macOS services in either case, but if you buy the M1, they capture hardware sales revenue.

AshamedCaptain 4y ago
> I have not heard, and cannot find, any rumors about Apple shipping a Linux emulator. Links? It was even on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 , https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/macos-ventura-will-extend-rosetta-support-to-linux-virtual-machines/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/06/macos-ventura-will-e... > macOS drives hardware sales. Apple makes money on hardware sales. Not as clear specially when the money they make from macOS hardware sales is actually less than what they make from services or iOS hardware sales. The era when we had an open computing standards Apple that tried to interoperate with others is long gone. This is the era of the captive Apple who is trying to bind you into their ecosystem, and I won't believe the "0%" argument any more than I believe it for MS.
- halostatue 4y ago
  The extension of Rosetta2 to work in virtualization contexts is not the same as Apple shipping a Linux emulator / environment like WSL / WSL2.
  - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
    Please note that I said a x86 Linux emulator, and it is exactly that. It is: 1. A Linux binary, 2. Which translates Linux/ELF code from x86 to ARM, 3. And translates Linux x86 syscalls to amd64 Linux, 4. With the explicit intention of allowing the user to run x86 Linux binaries under macOS. If you want to be this level of nitpicking, then WSL is not a Linux emulator either; after all, they also require an existing Linux kernel to work, and may not even emulate anything whatsoever. But BOTH WSL2 and this emulator serve _exactly_ the serve purpose: to facilitate running of Linux binaries under a native host OS that is not Linux, thus my point.