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> Does anyone have any recommendations for what to get instead of SOUNDBOKs for my van? If you want hardware that will last, don't buy stuff that includes remo

> Does anyone have any recommendations for what to get instead of SOUNDBOKs for my van? If you want hardware that will last, don't buy stuff that includes remote updatable firmware. Speakers work fine without firmware. For hardware that does run firmware (like a receiver or controller) get one that doesn't update, and doesn't require updates, unless you find an issue that is solved in an update and which you can opt in to. Most hardware that's on the internet chatting to whoever made it doesn't have a life expectancy past five years or so — it's part of the business model.

Aardwolf 4y ago
A loudspeaker is a device that takes in an analog electric signal and turns it electromagnetically into sound waves, and if it includes its own amplifier that too is analog circuitry. If it has firmware, then it's not just a speaker but a stereo system / radio / player of some sorts / ... that happens to have its own built in speakers. And a crappy one at that if it wants to waste your time with "updates" rather than just playing what you ask it to.
salzig 4y ago
man am i happy that my Soundboks 1 doesn't have something like that, or at least i never realised as it works as a bluetooth speaker without any app-BS. Quite strange how the Hardware World has changed.
- capableweb 4y ago
  I think what's changed is consumer/"prosumer" gear, professional gear still works the same way.
kragen 4y ago
I think the correct solution is to buy hardware whose firmware is free software under your control so that you're safe from manufacturer-pushed malware. As long as people keep using the hardware, they can share firmware updates with each other. And that way your device gets better over time instead of worse. If you're designing a speaker with a built-in amplifier, you can probably get better performance at lower cost and lower power consumption by designing a microcontroller into the amplifier circuitry. Once you do that, you have firmware, and then it's just a matter of whether users (or the manufacturer) can update the firmware or not.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > hardware whose firmware is free software I like the idea, but as someone who makes music, I'm having a hard time finding anything that is professional-grade and ships firmware that is free software. Brands I'm using now is Adams Audio, Novation, Mackie, Elektron, Korg, Novation and more, and I don't think a single one of them ships FOSS firmware. It would limit my options considerably, even though I think it would be better long-term.
  - kragen 4y ago
    Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that "the correct solution" is actually feasible right now. We are in a really bad situation with respect to user freedom of software, as I predicted we would be in this essay I wrote late last millennium: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kragen-software.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kragen-software.html
    - capableweb 4y ago
      > Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that "the correct solution" is actually feasible right now Ah, I understand. I guess starting your comment with "I think the correct solution is" and not including the disclaimer of "you can't actually do this today" is prone to making people believing you could do something like that today :) No harm done though, thanks for explaining.
      - kragen 4y ago
        This is a political problem, not a technical one, so the solution is collective action, not individual action. 300 years ago you could reasonably have said, "The correct solution to the poverty of the Russian peasants is for them to move to the cities and start an industrial revolution," and you would have been right, but if as a serf you attempted this you would have in most cases been beaten and sent back to the feudal estate you came from, if not killed. It took a century and a half plagued with serf revolts and bloodshed before serfdom was abolished, and even today the Russian peasants are subject to conscription, arbitrary detention, and many limitations on their freedom.
shard 4y ago
Tangentially, this is one benefit of wired headphones versus wireless, no software required. But just to be clear, although I have no experience with the product in question, I do know that some professional speakers used as monitors are active speakers, and they have built-in DSPs to give a flatter frequency curve. Of course there are ones which are not updatable, but then of course you are giving up the ability to apply any bug fixes in the firmware.

Aardwolf 4y ago

A loudspeaker is a device that takes in an analog electric signal and turns it electromagnetically into sound waves, and if it includes its own amplifier that too is analog circuitry. If it has firmware, then it's not just a speaker but a stereo system / radio / player of some sorts / ... that happens to have its own built in speakers. And a crappy one at that if it wants to waste your time with "updates" rather than just playing what you ask it to.

salzig 4y ago

man am i happy that my Soundboks 1 doesn't have something like that, or at least i never realised as it works as a bluetooth speaker without any app-BS. Quite strange how the Hardware World has changed.

capableweb 4y ago
I think what's changed is consumer/"prosumer" gear, professional gear still works the same way.

kragen 4y ago

I think the correct solution is to buy hardware whose firmware is free software under your control so that you're safe from manufacturer-pushed malware. As long as people keep using the hardware, they can share firmware updates with each other. And that way your device gets better over time instead of worse. If you're designing a speaker with a built-in amplifier, you can probably get better performance at lower cost and lower power consumption by designing a microcontroller into the amplifier circuitry. Once you do that, you have firmware, and then it's just a matter of whether users (or the manufacturer) can update the firmware or not.

capableweb 4y ago
> hardware whose firmware is free software I like the idea, but as someone who makes music, I'm having a hard time finding anything that is professional-grade and ships firmware that is free software. Brands I'm using now is Adams Audio, Novation, Mackie, Elektron, Korg, Novation and more, and I don't think a single one of them ships FOSS firmware. It would limit my options considerably, even though I think it would be better long-term.
- kragen 4y ago
  Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that "the correct solution" is actually feasible right now. We are in a really bad situation with respect to user freedom of software, as I predicted we would be in this essay I wrote late last millennium: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kragen-software.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/kragen-software.html
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that "the correct solution" is actually feasible right now Ah, I understand. I guess starting your comment with "I think the correct solution is" and not including the disclaimer of "you can't actually do this today" is prone to making people believing you could do something like that today :) No harm done though, thanks for explaining.
    - kragen 4y ago
      This is a political problem, not a technical one, so the solution is collective action, not individual action. 300 years ago you could reasonably have said, "The correct solution to the poverty of the Russian peasants is for them to move to the cities and start an industrial revolution," and you would have been right, but if as a serf you attempted this you would have in most cases been beaten and sent back to the feudal estate you came from, if not killed. It took a century and a half plagued with serf revolts and bloodshed before serfdom was abolished, and even today the Russian peasants are subject to conscription, arbitrary detention, and many limitations on their freedom.

shard 4y ago

Tangentially, this is one benefit of wired headphones versus wireless, no software required. But just to be clear, although I have no experience with the product in question, I do know that some professional speakers used as monitors are active speakers, and they have built-in DSPs to give a flatter frequency curve. Of course there are ones which are not updatable, but then of course you are giving up the ability to apply any bug fixes in the firmware.