4 ms·

Shameful how people come from one OS to completelly different one and expect the same things. All mentioned things are easy once you know where you came to and

Shameful how people come from one OS to completelly different one and expect the same things. All mentioned things are easy once you know where you came to and know how to behave properly.

oblio 4y ago
This happens super frequently. Someone with a ton of POSIX experience, gained through blood, sweat and tears over years and years, moves over to the "easy" Windows world. Then they complain about not being able to do the exact same things on day 1, with 0 effort. They'd be laughed at for ages the other way round, and justifiably so.
- xorcist 4y ago
  That's disregarding the real world a little bit. You may like or dislike it, but the fact is that Linux totally dominates the cloud era. Among those who have the luxury to choose their tools themselves, among them startups and hobbyists, it's basically down to Linux or Mac, unless you develop for the Microsoft ecosystem. Microsoft got a bit complacent during the decade before, and allowed single user considerations to influence the design (the registry, the small business-oriented administration tools, the complete lack of usable shell, terminal and editor), and they still pay the price of backwards compatibility with this despite most of it being fixed long ago. All languages and tools from the past two decades such as Python, Ruby, Node, Rust, Go, and so on and first class citizens on Linux. They all work with the file system, the shell, and the package management system because that's what people use. I'm sure there will be post-Linux era too, but that's not where we are now and when it comes it will not look the 90s again.
  - majkinetor 4y ago
    Sorry, but that is all crap. Everything is equally approachable on the Windows. Powershell is light years ahead compared to any Linux shell. Chocolatey is maybe most up to date package manager around, on par with Arch. One thing where I would use Linux over Windows any time is IoT simply due to size and price. Windows nano version is still pain compared to mini Linux distros.
    - atwood22 4y ago
      I would love a PowerShell example that finds files in a directory tree matching a file name pattern, filters those files to those that contain a specific string in their contents, and then prints the filenames to a single output file.
      - majkinetor 4y ago
        In the root dir: ls -Recurse glob | ? { (gc $_ -Raw) -match pattern } | Out-File result.log Not tested, typed on phone before bad half a sleep.
    - xorcist 4y ago
      Powershell is a good example of what was made after everyone could see that the momentum just wasn't there. It's far from enough to turn the tide. The market will turn sooner or later of course, but not back to what was before. Package managers is also a good example. Everything is third party and nothing is default. They must be configured to work with your instance of git and python and whatnot. And who knows if the tools expect a case sensitive file system, or wants to open a socket in a mode that doesn't work, or use a certificate store that isn't the system default, or some script that expects a network interface that just isn't there. You are free to hold your own opinion of course. But if you work with Node or Python or other things that cloud apps are built from, most people will stick to whatever everyone else uses. That's just the reason it is like it is. It's the same dynamic that kept Microsoft close to a monopoly in the office era. It's great that people use other platforms too in order to keep portability of our tools high, but as for the cloud era, the market is unlikely to change much from here. We'll be stuck with the web for a while, and it runs on Linux.
  - oblio 4y ago
    It's not about practicality, most of my day jobs relied on my knowledge of POSIX :-) It's about intellectual dishonesty, regularly complaining about Windows things from a very shallow perspective that would not be tolerated of POSIX. An "argument from ignorance", if you will.
    - atwood22 4y ago
      My original argument was from first-hand experience developing for a Windows server deployment. It's a little insulting that you would call that ignorance while simultaneously not addressing the grievances encountered.
      - majkinetor 4y ago
        If it was insult, then it was well deserved. You should learn from it. Having a single deployment project of Windows OS is so narrow experiance. Every OS has things where it shines compared to others and those where it could be better. Why cant I deploy all linux like Guix? More then that, you need to give it time, explore the culture, find out native tools and see how cross platform tools are used. You cant judge anything without spending enough productive an play time with it.

Shameful how people come from one OS to completelly different one and expect the same things. All mentioned things are easy once you know where you came to and know how to behave properly.

oblio 4y ago

This happens super frequently. Someone with a ton of POSIX experience, gained through blood, sweat and tears over years and years, moves over to the "easy" Windows world. Then they complain about not being able to do the exact same things on day 1, with 0 effort. They'd be laughed at for ages the other way round, and justifiably so.

xorcist 4y ago
That's disregarding the real world a little bit. You may like or dislike it, but the fact is that Linux totally dominates the cloud era. Among those who have the luxury to choose their tools themselves, among them startups and hobbyists, it's basically down to Linux or Mac, unless you develop for the Microsoft ecosystem. Microsoft got a bit complacent during the decade before, and allowed single user considerations to influence the design (the registry, the small business-oriented administration tools, the complete lack of usable shell, terminal and editor), and they still pay the price of backwards compatibility with this despite most of it being fixed long ago. All languages and tools from the past two decades such as Python, Ruby, Node, Rust, Go, and so on and first class citizens on Linux. They all work with the file system, the shell, and the package management system because that's what people use. I'm sure there will be post-Linux era too, but that's not where we are now and when it comes it will not look the 90s again.
- majkinetor 4y ago
  Sorry, but that is all crap. Everything is equally approachable on the Windows. Powershell is light years ahead compared to any Linux shell. Chocolatey is maybe most up to date package manager around, on par with Arch. One thing where I would use Linux over Windows any time is IoT simply due to size and price. Windows nano version is still pain compared to mini Linux distros.
  - atwood22 4y ago
    I would love a PowerShell example that finds files in a directory tree matching a file name pattern, filters those files to those that contain a specific string in their contents, and then prints the filenames to a single output file.
    - majkinetor 4y ago
      In the root dir: ls -Recurse glob | ? { (gc $_ -Raw) -match pattern } | Out-File result.log Not tested, typed on phone before bad half a sleep.
  - xorcist 4y ago
    Powershell is a good example of what was made after everyone could see that the momentum just wasn't there. It's far from enough to turn the tide. The market will turn sooner or later of course, but not back to what was before. Package managers is also a good example. Everything is third party and nothing is default. They must be configured to work with your instance of git and python and whatnot. And who knows if the tools expect a case sensitive file system, or wants to open a socket in a mode that doesn't work, or use a certificate store that isn't the system default, or some script that expects a network interface that just isn't there. You are free to hold your own opinion of course. But if you work with Node or Python or other things that cloud apps are built from, most people will stick to whatever everyone else uses. That's just the reason it is like it is. It's the same dynamic that kept Microsoft close to a monopoly in the office era. It's great that people use other platforms too in order to keep portability of our tools high, but as for the cloud era, the market is unlikely to change much from here. We'll be stuck with the web for a while, and it runs on Linux.
- oblio 4y ago
  It's not about practicality, most of my day jobs relied on my knowledge of POSIX :-) It's about intellectual dishonesty, regularly complaining about Windows things from a very shallow perspective that would not be tolerated of POSIX. An "argument from ignorance", if you will.
  - atwood22 4y ago
    My original argument was from first-hand experience developing for a Windows server deployment. It's a little insulting that you would call that ignorance while simultaneously not addressing the grievances encountered.
    - majkinetor 4y ago
      If it was insult, then it was well deserved. You should learn from it. Having a single deployment project of Windows OS is so narrow experiance. Every OS has things where it shines compared to others and those where it could be better. Why cant I deploy all linux like Guix? More then that, you need to give it time, explore the culture, find out native tools and see how cross platform tools are used. You cant judge anything without spending enough productive an play time with it.