7 ms·

As someone on the mathematics side, I had no idea this misperception existed. Why would the Fields Medal be capped to recipients under age 40, otherwise? It is

As someone on the mathematics side, I had no idea this misperception existed. Why would the Fields Medal be capped to recipients under age 40, otherwise? It is idiotic to think that an award for "greatest mathematical genius" (which is a clumsy way of describing any prize) would just ignore accomplishments over a certain age, it is almost offensive. It has always been an award recognizing emerging talent, and it has always been entirely clear to anyone who paid attention to it. The Abel prize (https://abelprize.no/ https://abelprize.no/) and Wolf prize (https://wolffund.org.il/the-wolf-prize/ https://wolffund.org.il/the-wolf-prize/) exist to recognize general accomplishments in mathematics. A perfect example is Sir Andrew Wiles, who proved the Taniyama–Shimura and thus resolved Fermat's last theorem, who received Abel and Wolf prize. But he was 40 when he began presenting his proof and was too old to qualify by the time he fixed his initial issues with Iwasawa theory. He was recognized by the Fields committee with a special "IMU silver plaque", instead.

rambojazz 4y ago
40 seems incredibly old for an "emergent" talent in Maths
sillysaurusx 4y ago
You’ve godda understand, most of us don’t pay attention to medals. The Fields Medal is prestigious, and prestige breeds misconceptions. I’ve been vaguely interested in mathematics for decades and never knew the Fields Medal was anything but a recognition of the greatest mathematical achievement. Thanks for the anecdote about Wiles. I had no idea mathematics didn’t have some way of properly recognizing achievements from the ancients over 40. So much for respect for one’s elders.
- rob74 4y ago
  Did you read the parent comment? Wiles received two other prestigious prizes in addition to the "special IMU silver plaque" from the Fields committee, so I don't think you can say his achievement wasn't properly recognized.
- keerthiko 4y ago
  the very same comment you are replying to mentions the Abel prize and the Wolf prize for recognizing general mathematics achievements, which if you look at the recipients over the last 2 decades, are almost all over 40 (usually white men who typically get tenured as mathematics professors and have the time and resources to focus on research). I appreciate OP for explaining that the field recognized this pattern and made a step to try to encourage future mathematicians to have something to aspire to.
  - throwaway5752 4y ago
    Actually, it's a bit of the reverse. The Fields medal was established in 1936, Wolf in 1978, and Abel in 2003. And Wolf and Abel filled gaps that Fields left because of its restrictions. Further, the first woman to get the Fields, Maryam Mirzakhani, was only awarded in 2014 (Abel, Wolf are worse). I don't think you can look at any of these awards and address the gender inequity in mathematics, either.
    - bonoboTP 4y ago
      Give it based on the math, not based on gender.
    - bena 4y ago
      It kind of tracks that Abel and Wolf would trail behind Fields in that regard. As someone noted, since Fields is for the under-40 crowd, it'll be able to draw upon female mathematicians coming up into the field. Abel and Wolf would need to draw on the larger population. And thanks to all the biases, I'd imagine the number of women get smaller as the age gets higher. That should correct itself in time.
diogenes_of_ak 4y ago
Math (and I’m a math major) has a hard-on for youth. So does comp sci. Everyone wants to pretend they’re Abel or Galois in Math.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- texaslonghorn5 4y ago
  And even Abel and Galois completed their most important work near the end of their lives.
  - sverhagen 4y ago
    I had to read up on these folks to understand that one of them was shot dead at 20, and the other attracted tuberculosis and died at 26.
    - cperciva 4y ago
      Pretty sure you mean "contracted" TB, but the typo did provide a humourous mental image.
      - sverhagen 4y ago
        I probably did. ESL, in over my head.
        mLuby 4y ago
        Your first clause is complex and correct so you're doing just fine. :)
    - rob74 4y ago
      ...so even at the end of their lives they would have still easily qualified for the Fields Medal. Maybe they should receive a posthumous honorary one. Or maybe they already did?
paulpauper 4y ago
It's not a life changing amount of money, and if someone makes a huge finding they will still get tons of recognition and other forms of monetary compensation too. It's not like it's all or nothing.
dhc02 4y ago
That the Fields medal is in the public imagination at all is mostly due to its mention in the movie Good Will Hunting. In which it is explained simply as "like the Nobel Prize for math". So that's it. There you go
- writeslowly 4y ago
  This article says it's an artifact of cold war politics https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/opinion/sunday/how-math-got-its-nobel-.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/opinion/sunday/how-math-g... I'm not personally familiar with the history, this just turned up when I googled the nytimes for "fields medal" and "nobel prize", but that query also turns up articles from 1986 and 1977. On the other hand, if it's still part of the public imagination, it does seem more likely that its from Good Will Hunting and not the cold war.
- throwaway5752 4y ago
  I enjoyed Good Will Hunting, it is easily the coolest commutative diagrams have ever been with the general public. It was also released 25 years ago, before approximately a quarter of the world's population was born. I don't think that is why.
  - btilly 4y ago
    You would be astonished at how long phrases can last, with little sense behind it at all! My favorite example is documented in Bully for Brontosaurus (see https://www.amazon.com/Bully-Brontosaurus-Reflections-Natural-History/dp/039330857X https://www.amazon.com/Bully-Brontosaurus-Reflections-Natura... if you want to buy it) in the essay, "The case of the creeping fox terrier clone." For close to a century, the first thing that everyone learned about the early horse Euohippus, officially known as Hyracotherium, was that it was "about the size of a small fox terrier". This despite the fact that essentially nobody knew what size a small fox terrier WAS. And despite the fact that later research found that the animal in question actually weighed several times what a fox terrier does! (But the shoulder height is indeed close.) I've certainly seen the phrase "like the Nobel for mathematics" many times. I couldn't even have cited the original source. But it doesn't surprise me if this is the only thing most people have heard about the Fields medal. And it also doesn't surprise me that it would come from a movie.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ahmadmijot 4y ago
Just want to ask from a layperson, between Abel and Wolf prize, which one is more 'prestige' like Nobel Prize for mathematics kind of prestige?
mellosouls 4y ago
It is idiotic to think that an award for "greatest mathematical genius" [...] would just ignore accomplishments over a certain age, it is almost offensive Unfortunately, nature - as ever - doesn't care about causing offence. At the very highest creative level, maths - like pop music and physics - is a young person's game.
- timkam 4y ago
  As somebody who does some 'mathy' theoretical CS work, I wonder if this will stay true forever, for the following reasons: * The general population, but also academics, take increasingly more time to mature. * The body of knowledge grows and mastering it takes more time. * People (at least the privileged elites) spend more time taking care of their mental and physical health. For example, we see that athletes competing in team sports on top level may reach their peak in their mid-30ies, which is a relatively recent development. If one translates this to math (I know it is a shaky assumption, but why not speculate) and peak creativity is reached in the mid-30ies, the papers that result from it may be published years later. * In some decades, people will most likely frequently use software tools as helpers. Not that I think that these developments change things completely, but I would expect that we will see a substantial shift.
  - throwaway5752 4y ago
    I had read up on HoTT/UF after Voevodsky passed away. It seemed promising, has it developed much? It seemed like coq / UniMath had a reasonable community.
bena 4y ago
I'm only very superficially aware of the Fields medal. I was not even aware it had an age limit. I know it's given as a credential when someone wants to be shown as "good at math".

rambojazz 4y ago

40 seems incredibly old for an "emergent" talent in Maths

sillysaurusx 4y ago

You’ve godda understand, most of us don’t pay attention to medals. The Fields Medal is prestigious, and prestige breeds misconceptions. I’ve been vaguely interested in mathematics for decades and never knew the Fields Medal was anything but a recognition of the greatest mathematical achievement. Thanks for the anecdote about Wiles. I had no idea mathematics didn’t have some way of properly recognizing achievements from the ancients over 40. So much for respect for one’s elders.

rob74 4y ago
Did you read the parent comment? Wiles received two other prestigious prizes in addition to the "special IMU silver plaque" from the Fields committee, so I don't think you can say his achievement wasn't properly recognized.
keerthiko 4y ago
the very same comment you are replying to mentions the Abel prize and the Wolf prize for recognizing general mathematics achievements, which if you look at the recipients over the last 2 decades, are almost all over 40 (usually white men who typically get tenured as mathematics professors and have the time and resources to focus on research). I appreciate OP for explaining that the field recognized this pattern and made a step to try to encourage future mathematicians to have something to aspire to.
- throwaway5752 4y ago
  Actually, it's a bit of the reverse. The Fields medal was established in 1936, Wolf in 1978, and Abel in 2003. And Wolf and Abel filled gaps that Fields left because of its restrictions. Further, the first woman to get the Fields, Maryam Mirzakhani, was only awarded in 2014 (Abel, Wolf are worse). I don't think you can look at any of these awards and address the gender inequity in mathematics, either.
  - bonoboTP 4y ago
    Give it based on the math, not based on gender.
  - bena 4y ago
    It kind of tracks that Abel and Wolf would trail behind Fields in that regard. As someone noted, since Fields is for the under-40 crowd, it'll be able to draw upon female mathematicians coming up into the field. Abel and Wolf would need to draw on the larger population. And thanks to all the biases, I'd imagine the number of women get smaller as the age gets higher. That should correct itself in time.

diogenes_of_ak 4y ago

Math (and I’m a math major) has a hard-on for youth. So does comp sci. Everyone wants to pretend they’re Abel or Galois in Math.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
texaslonghorn5 4y ago
And even Abel and Galois completed their most important work near the end of their lives.
- sverhagen 4y ago
  I had to read up on these folks to understand that one of them was shot dead at 20, and the other attracted tuberculosis and died at 26.
  - cperciva 4y ago
    Pretty sure you mean "contracted" TB, but the typo did provide a humourous mental image.
    - sverhagen 4y ago
      I probably did. ESL, in over my head.
      - mLuby 4y ago
        Your first clause is complex and correct so you're doing just fine. :)
  - rob74 4y ago
    ...so even at the end of their lives they would have still easily qualified for the Fields Medal. Maybe they should receive a posthumous honorary one. Or maybe they already did?

paulpauper 4y ago

It's not a life changing amount of money, and if someone makes a huge finding they will still get tons of recognition and other forms of monetary compensation too. It's not like it's all or nothing.

dhc02 4y ago

That the Fields medal is in the public imagination at all is mostly due to its mention in the movie Good Will Hunting. In which it is explained simply as "like the Nobel Prize for math". So that's it. There you go

writeslowly 4y ago
This article says it's an artifact of cold war politics https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/opinion/sunday/how-math-got-its-nobel-.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/opinion/sunday/how-math-g... I'm not personally familiar with the history, this just turned up when I googled the nytimes for "fields medal" and "nobel prize", but that query also turns up articles from 1986 and 1977. On the other hand, if it's still part of the public imagination, it does seem more likely that its from Good Will Hunting and not the cold war.
throwaway5752 4y ago
I enjoyed Good Will Hunting, it is easily the coolest commutative diagrams have ever been with the general public. It was also released 25 years ago, before approximately a quarter of the world's population was born. I don't think that is why.
- btilly 4y ago
  You would be astonished at how long phrases can last, with little sense behind it at all! My favorite example is documented in Bully for Brontosaurus (see https://www.amazon.com/Bully-Brontosaurus-Reflections-Natural-History/dp/039330857X https://www.amazon.com/Bully-Brontosaurus-Reflections-Natura... if you want to buy it) in the essay, "The case of the creeping fox terrier clone." For close to a century, the first thing that everyone learned about the early horse Euohippus, officially known as Hyracotherium, was that it was "about the size of a small fox terrier". This despite the fact that essentially nobody knew what size a small fox terrier WAS. And despite the fact that later research found that the animal in question actually weighed several times what a fox terrier does! (But the shoulder height is indeed close.) I've certainly seen the phrase "like the Nobel for mathematics" many times. I couldn't even have cited the original source. But it doesn't surprise me if this is the only thing most people have heard about the Fields medal. And it also doesn't surprise me that it would come from a movie.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ahmadmijot 4y ago

Just want to ask from a layperson, between Abel and Wolf prize, which one is more 'prestige' like Nobel Prize for mathematics kind of prestige?

mellosouls 4y ago

It is idiotic to think that an award for "greatest mathematical genius" [...] would just ignore accomplishments over a certain age, it is almost offensive Unfortunately, nature - as ever - doesn't care about causing offence. At the very highest creative level, maths - like pop music and physics - is a young person's game.

timkam 4y ago
As somebody who does some 'mathy' theoretical CS work, I wonder if this will stay true forever, for the following reasons: * The general population, but also academics, take increasingly more time to mature. * The body of knowledge grows and mastering it takes more time. * People (at least the privileged elites) spend more time taking care of their mental and physical health. For example, we see that athletes competing in team sports on top level may reach their peak in their mid-30ies, which is a relatively recent development. If one translates this to math (I know it is a shaky assumption, but why not speculate) and peak creativity is reached in the mid-30ies, the papers that result from it may be published years later. * In some decades, people will most likely frequently use software tools as helpers. Not that I think that these developments change things completely, but I would expect that we will see a substantial shift.
- throwaway5752 4y ago
  I had read up on HoTT/UF after Voevodsky passed away. It seemed promising, has it developed much? It seemed like coq / UniMath had a reasonable community.

bena 4y ago

I'm only very superficially aware of the Fields medal. I was not even aware it had an age limit. I know it's given as a credential when someone wants to be shown as "good at math".