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Literally nobody is saying "we should only have wind", though. The point is to have an array of energy sources. If there's no wind, solar can compensate. If th

Literally nobody is saying "we should only have wind", though. The point is to have an array of energy sources. If there's no wind, solar can compensate. If there's no sun, nuclear can compensate. If nuclear goes down, then you can tap into natural gas. If there's no natural gas, then go for coal or whatever.

EricE 4y ago
Who's going to pay for these mythical natural gas and coal plants that are idle until needed? Also with coal in particular it can take days to ramp them up - coal is for base load, not demand. If it were only as simple as you are postulating - which is why these 2nd level effects of blindly pushing renewables without taking the whole system into account are causing issues like we are seeing in Texas, California and many other places too.
bequanna 4y ago
> If there's no wind, solar can compensate. Except... There can be a large part of the day when there is neither wind nor sun. > If there's no natural gas, then go for coal or whatever. Uh huh, but those coal plants aren't just sitting there waiting for you to use them. They have a long startup period and have to run pretty much all the time to make sense. I think you're missing how badly we've screwed up base load and creating a reliability problem as we decommission coal plants and think we can replace them with wind.
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  Solar and wind behave antiproportional most of the time. When there is less sun (due to clouds) there is more wind. With a little bit of overbuilding both energy sources, most of our energy needs could be compensated.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago
  > Except... There can be a large part of the day when there is neither wind nor sun. If people stopped wasting money on EV's and bought residential batteries instead...
  - EricE 4y ago
    You can also use an EV as a residential battery - we just need better control systems/integration to make it easier for normal people.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- freemint 4y ago
  There is no part of the day where there is no sun and no wind. The sun shines 24/7. If you say "the sun doesn't shine 24/7 on my country" you just getting energy from your country is the problem.
  - bequanna 4y ago
    Huh? Are you proposing that we build some worldwide network of transmission lines to move solar power from Africa -> North America when it is night time in the latter?
    - freemint 4y ago
      Yes. Research on the idea is limited. But even just intercontinental connections are profitable to society https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618307522 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095965261... . I assume network effects are gonna increase the benefit more. Even seasonal differences can be compensated without long term storage.

EricE 4y ago

Who's going to pay for these mythical natural gas and coal plants that are idle until needed? Also with coal in particular it can take days to ramp them up - coal is for base load, not demand. If it were only as simple as you are postulating - which is why these 2nd level effects of blindly pushing renewables without taking the whole system into account are causing issues like we are seeing in Texas, California and many other places too.

bequanna 4y ago

> If there's no wind, solar can compensate. Except... There can be a large part of the day when there is neither wind nor sun. > If there's no natural gas, then go for coal or whatever. Uh huh, but those coal plants aren't just sitting there waiting for you to use them. They have a long startup period and have to run pretty much all the time to make sense. I think you're missing how badly we've screwed up base load and creating a reliability problem as we decommission coal plants and think we can replace them with wind.

Gasp0de 4y ago
Solar and wind behave antiproportional most of the time. When there is less sun (due to clouds) there is more wind. With a little bit of overbuilding both energy sources, most of our energy needs could be compensated.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
> Except... There can be a large part of the day when there is neither wind nor sun. If people stopped wasting money on EV's and bought residential batteries instead...
- EricE 4y ago
  You can also use an EV as a residential battery - we just need better control systems/integration to make it easier for normal people.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
freemint 4y ago
There is no part of the day where there is no sun and no wind. The sun shines 24/7. If you say "the sun doesn't shine 24/7 on my country" you just getting energy from your country is the problem.
- bequanna 4y ago
  Huh? Are you proposing that we build some worldwide network of transmission lines to move solar power from Africa -> North America when it is night time in the latter?
  - freemint 4y ago
    Yes. Research on the idea is limited. But even just intercontinental connections are profitable to society https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652618307522 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095965261... . I assume network effects are gonna increase the benefit more. Even seasonal differences can be compensated without long term storage.