4 ms·

One of my favorites is The Road to Wigan Pier, which investigates living conditions of the British working classes. He fairly deftly draws a line between wages

by krebby 4y ago

One of my favorites is The Road to Wigan Pier, which investigates living conditions of the British working classes. He fairly deftly draws a line between wages and social reforms in part 1, and why the working class largely don't identify as socialists in part 2. Fantastic read.

jhbadger 4y ago
Yes, although in The Road to Wigan Pier you really see how socially conservative Orwell was. His complaints about socialists weren't just that many of them were well-off people out of touch with the real problems of the working class (in which he had a point), but also that some of them were vegetarians, some birth-control advocates, some didn't drink alcohol or smoke, and (although Orwell says this indirectly) some of them were gay. Orwell claimed that the working class didn't like these traits, but really, it was Orwell himself who didn't. His imagined working class was basically himself if he had been a factory worker rather than a writer.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Isn't the working class almost always more socially conservative than the middle and upper classes? It's certainly true of our time. AFAICT his analysis still rings true.
  - jhbadger 4y ago
    Well, that's debatable. Yes, certainly right wing populists (who are often funded by billionaires and/or are so themselves) like to claim that working class people are socially conservative and that the "elite" are the ones that are trying to instigate social change, but there seems to be quite a mix of social views at all strata of society.
    - LAC-Tech 4y ago
      It's very hard to qualify, I suppose. We just have our anecdotes. I've definitely noticed that the more formal education people have had - and the better they've done in that system - the less socially conservative they are. I live in a rural working class area but work remotely with middle class professionals from big cities, there's a pretty distinct divide in social attitudes. As for attitudes in the upper class, I can't speak to that.
  - balsam 4y ago
    to borrow the parlance of the venture capitalists, Orwell would be against the “lifestyle” socialists. It’s pretty rational if he wanted to see his movement grow into a sort of monopoly and not be stunted by infighting. Indeed, if you add in the (more impoverished) rural classes, your thesis would still be stronger, for these are socially conservative by virtue of not being as educated or sophisticated as the urbanites.

by krebby 4y ago

jhbadger 4y ago

Yes, although in The Road to Wigan Pier you really see how socially conservative Orwell was. His complaints about socialists weren't just that many of them were well-off people out of touch with the real problems of the working class (in which he had a point), but also that some of them were vegetarians, some birth-control advocates, some didn't drink alcohol or smoke, and (although Orwell says this indirectly) some of them were gay. Orwell claimed that the working class didn't like these traits, but really, it was Orwell himself who didn't. His imagined working class was basically himself if he had been a factory worker rather than a writer.

LAC-Tech 4y ago
Isn't the working class almost always more socially conservative than the middle and upper classes? It's certainly true of our time. AFAICT his analysis still rings true.
- jhbadger 4y ago
  Well, that's debatable. Yes, certainly right wing populists (who are often funded by billionaires and/or are so themselves) like to claim that working class people are socially conservative and that the "elite" are the ones that are trying to instigate social change, but there seems to be quite a mix of social views at all strata of society.
  - LAC-Tech 4y ago
    It's very hard to qualify, I suppose. We just have our anecdotes. I've definitely noticed that the more formal education people have had - and the better they've done in that system - the less socially conservative they are. I live in a rural working class area but work remotely with middle class professionals from big cities, there's a pretty distinct divide in social attitudes. As for attitudes in the upper class, I can't speak to that.
- balsam 4y ago
  to borrow the parlance of the venture capitalists, Orwell would be against the “lifestyle” socialists. It’s pretty rational if he wanted to see his movement grow into a sort of monopoly and not be stunted by infighting. Indeed, if you add in the (more impoverished) rural classes, your thesis would still be stronger, for these are socially conservative by virtue of not being as educated or sophisticated as the urbanites.