4 ms·

> because of the potential unknown side effects Without trying to inflame the rhetoric in this discussion (I feel like HN is one of the few places that this is

> because of the potential unknown side effects Without trying to inflame the rhetoric in this discussion (I feel like HN is one of the few places that this is possible) – will this be your stance on new vaccines and medicines going forward? "Potential unknown side effects" is a critique that can be levied against almost any medical approval process, but the FDA has had an excellent track record with vaccine safety over the last ~70 years.

LinuxBender 4y ago
Just anecdotally I can only speak for myself but I have stayed clear of vaccines for 29 years after the military used experimental vaccines on me and I never doubted or regretted my decision. I instead focus on keeping my innate and adaptive immune systems incredibly strong. This requires discipline and dedication to a strict diet and moderate exercise and is why I suspect that many people are opposed to this way of life. There are a million rabbit hole arguments for and against what I am doing but I am happy with the path I am on.
- ChrisRR 4y ago
  Just out of interest, how do you mean used experimental vaccines on you? Is this something you opted in to?
  - LinuxBender 4y ago
    I had adverse reactions to their vaccines. When I inquired as the ingredients I was advised it was classified. I ran into the "It's classified" wall a few times.
macinjosh 4y ago
> the FDA has had an excellent track record with vaccine safety over the last ~70 years Yeah, and they did this by going through a lot of detailed processes, study, and trial. Not by doing what was done in this case.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DrAwdeOccarim 4y ago
  Again, not to further inflame, but no corners were cut for the trials. The only thing that happened was the Federal government covered the costs to do all parts in parallel (for Moderna, kinda also for Pfizer with the APA, but more complex). Typically longer is between the safety trial and the efficacy trial, but almost all side effects ever observed for previous vaccine trials show up within 6 months of the phase 1 trial.
  - bananabiscuit 4y ago
    Corners were indeed cut. Reproductive toxicity was not studied. At vaccine rollouts, reproductive toxicity was only studied on rats, then about a year later there was finally a single very narrow study of a few dozen women, after billions of doses were administered. More generally, the control group was lost during the trials (they vaccinated the control group). I don’t have time at the moment to dig up my sources again (I posted all the relevant studies in my previous comments over the past year), but I assume you won’t mind too much since you also didn’t provide evidence for your claim that corners weren’t cut.
    - feelix 4y ago
      Another example of a corner being cut is that it was not tested on pregnant women
      - lelandfe 4y ago
        Probably not a "cut corner," as that's unfortunately normal[0][1] (people have been trying to change it for decades now). Happily Pfizer and Biontech have had extensive clinical trials ongoing for pregnant women since February 2021[2][3], and there was a preliminary analysis done across 35,691 recipients that had good findings[4]. It's something that regulators have paid a lot of attention to, with tens of thousands enrolled in the V-safe COVID-19 Vaccine Pregnancy Registry.[5] [0] https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/global-regulators-envision-paradigm-shift-toward-inclusion-pregnant-and-breastfeeding-women-clinical https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/global-regulators... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3547525/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3547525/ [2] https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-commence-global-clinical-trial-evaluate https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... [3] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594 [4] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2104983 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2104983 [5] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vsafepregnancyregistry.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vs...

LinuxBender 4y ago

Just anecdotally I can only speak for myself but I have stayed clear of vaccines for 29 years after the military used experimental vaccines on me and I never doubted or regretted my decision. I instead focus on keeping my innate and adaptive immune systems incredibly strong. This requires discipline and dedication to a strict diet and moderate exercise and is why I suspect that many people are opposed to this way of life. There are a million rabbit hole arguments for and against what I am doing but I am happy with the path I am on.

ChrisRR 4y ago
Just out of interest, how do you mean used experimental vaccines on you? Is this something you opted in to?
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  I had adverse reactions to their vaccines. When I inquired as the ingredients I was advised it was classified. I ran into the "It's classified" wall a few times.

macinjosh 4y ago

> the FDA has had an excellent track record with vaccine safety over the last ~70 years Yeah, and they did this by going through a lot of detailed processes, study, and trial. Not by doing what was done in this case.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DrAwdeOccarim 4y ago
Again, not to further inflame, but no corners were cut for the trials. The only thing that happened was the Federal government covered the costs to do all parts in parallel (for Moderna, kinda also for Pfizer with the APA, but more complex). Typically longer is between the safety trial and the efficacy trial, but almost all side effects ever observed for previous vaccine trials show up within 6 months of the phase 1 trial.
- bananabiscuit 4y ago
  Corners were indeed cut. Reproductive toxicity was not studied. At vaccine rollouts, reproductive toxicity was only studied on rats, then about a year later there was finally a single very narrow study of a few dozen women, after billions of doses were administered. More generally, the control group was lost during the trials (they vaccinated the control group). I don’t have time at the moment to dig up my sources again (I posted all the relevant studies in my previous comments over the past year), but I assume you won’t mind too much since you also didn’t provide evidence for your claim that corners weren’t cut.
  - feelix 4y ago
    Another example of a corner being cut is that it was not tested on pregnant women
    - lelandfe 4y ago
      Probably not a "cut corner," as that's unfortunately normal[0][1] (people have been trying to change it for decades now). Happily Pfizer and Biontech have had extensive clinical trials ongoing for pregnant women since February 2021[2][3], and there was a preliminary analysis done across 35,691 recipients that had good findings[4]. It's something that regulators have paid a lot of attention to, with tens of thousands enrolled in the V-safe COVID-19 Vaccine Pregnancy Registry.[5] [0] https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/global-regulators-envision-paradigm-shift-toward-inclusion-pregnant-and-breastfeeding-women-clinical https://www.fda.gov/news-events/fda-voices/global-regulators... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3547525/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3547525/ [2] https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-commence-global-clinical-trial-evaluate https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... [3] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04754594 [4] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2104983 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2104983 [5] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vsafepregnancyregistry.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vs...