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This was a really beautiful post. As for coffee, like many other parts of life (movies, food, and music especially), I find that I like it very good or very ba

This was a really beautiful post. As for coffee, like many other parts of life (movies, food, and music especially), I find that I like it very good or very bad—as long as it’s not down the middle, I can find a time/place to enjoy it. I have a fairly expensive Rocket Espresso machine, I’ve learned some latte art. I have every coffee making contraption out there. And I enjoy all of it, at times. When I’m in a hurry I’ll make instant or go to a gas station. Totally fine and the gas station coffee is kind of a favorite of mine for long trips in the car. What I almost never do is buy Starbucks because to me, it feels like that middle-of-the-road experience. I’m not making a statement about the company or the culture or anything like that. It just feels like going to Applebees or something (yes you’re out to eat, but shouldn’t you just go somewhere nice or, on the other hand, somewhere cheaper/faster where you don’t have to tip?). It’s too acidic and too expensive for what it is. I’d rather pay for something nicer or go cheap.

criddell 4y ago
What are you ordering at Starbucks? I’ve found, if they aren’t too busy, you can ask the barista about the beans they currently have and order a pour over or French press that’s pretty good.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  Yeah, well, if you want something really bad, order a Starbucks espresso in their paper cup.
  - jhugo 4y ago
    Meh, it's not that bad (at least outside the US, I've never been to a Starbucks in the US). I've been to plenty of places where Starbucks is the best espresso you can find.
    - wrycoder 4y ago
      I think it's the odor from the paper cup and the overall low quality experience compared to using a nice ceramic cup is what bothers me.
      - mbg721 4y ago
        A proper ceramic cup is a good thing.
      - jhugo 4y ago
        Most Starbucks (again, possibly a non-US perspective) will make your drink in a ceramic cup/mug if asked. Only the smallest kiosk-type ones can't do it.
ethbr0 4y ago
Well put. Starbucks has become the LongHorn of coffee: once super-local quality, now a thin gruel of mediocrity with fancy branding. And in the process they've wiped out most independent coffee shops.
- jen20 4y ago
  Have they? As far as I can tell there are now vastly more craft coffee shops than there ever were.
  - ethbr0 4y ago
    Per my experience, there used to be a ton (~90s), then Starbucks took off and killed a lot of them (00-10s), and now they seem to be coming back as people avoid Starbucks (20s). But imagine that's subject to regional variance.
  - jhugo 4y ago
    Indeed; for example the recent arrival and success of Starbucks in Italy was in some ways possible because of the pre-existing growth of 'craft'-type coffee shops which had expanded the idea of coffee, and of a coffee shop, beyond the traditional 'bar'.
tomjakubowski 4y ago
Big coffee guy, not really a fan of sbucks, but their "via" blonde roast is the best instant coffee I've had, ideal for camping coffee. Unfortunately the stuff I've had from smaller roasters (eg Verve) isn't that great.
- hanklazard 4y ago
  That’s true, their instant packs are probably my fav Sbucks product. So damn convenient/portable.
  - twangist 4y ago
    I third this opinion. Their instant packs are their best coffees.
luma 4y ago
My thing with Starbucks is that they have an opinionated flavor profile that trends heavily to (to me) wildly over-roasted. If that's what a person likes, have fun go bananas I'm not here to judge, but I don't think it's too crazy that someone just finds all Starbucks coffee to be hard to drink. Also, what's up Rocket buddy :D
- hanklazard 4y ago
  Rocket is the best! Upgraded from a Gaggia Classic (which my dad is now enjoying). The fact that I can make a latte that I genuinely think is better than a lot of the coffee places around me has really taken my snobbery to the next level (joking … sort of)
xeromal 4y ago
I'm in the same boat as you. I have a rolly-cart that I break out every day with all my coffee gadgets, but something about my local 7-11 coffee makes me go there at least once a week. They actually have solid coffee compared to all the other 7-11s around me, but it's also the short drive and talking to the nice owner that remembers me.
MAGZine 4y ago
starbucks can be good, the trick is to order: 1. espresso drinks 2. order one shot extra (starbucks will only put 1 shot of espresso in an 12oz tall--so you should order AT LEAST one extra shot). 3. ask for blonde roast, which is actually not half bad. pike place/standard is a disaster. it will not parallel any craft coffee shop, but this actually makes for drinkable coffee, which is convenient since there are starbucks literally everywhere.
- coffee_beqn 4y ago
  Their cold brew based drinks are also good (as a espresso machine owning snob)
  - sakras 4y ago
    Yes I love getting a large nitro cold brew and dumping milk in it! Helped me lose a lot of weight too!
    - brunoqc 4y ago
      > Helped me lose a lot of weight too! How? I hope it's not like in Requiem for a Dream with the old lady.
      - dsr_ 4y ago
        It's a lot of caffeine. If you aren't reminded that you're supposed to be hungry, you may not feel hungry until it's almost time for dinner.
        sakras 4y ago
        To elaborate, I usually end up mixing 3 cups of whole milk over the span of the day into it (usually done by 2pm), and then the combination of the fat and the caffeine keeps me full for a while after that, so I end up only having 450 calories until dinner, where even a large 1000 calorie dinner will keep me below my calorie goal.
guggalugalug 4y ago
Plus one for 'as long as it's not down the middle'. Or, nothing by half measures. Gas station coffee is a Rite. I am not a maniac, I use a burr grinder for locally & lightly roasted beans, and a v60. With an electric kettle that's about a five minute process, $1.30/300ml. On the other hand, nothing beats an early morning pop-in to the 7/11, couple 24oz "Regular Roast" cups, slide the cardboard sleeves on, fit the lids, pack of non filtered Camels, and, as you say, a long trip in the car.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  Do you find the unfiltered Camels have any kind of dulling effect on the coffee flavour (or any flavour for that matter)?
discardable_dan 4y ago
> As for coffee, like many other parts of life (movies, food, and music especially), I find that I like it very good or very bad—as long as it’s not down the middle, I can find a time/place to enjoy it. I agree, but I think it's slightly more! The author doesn't like coffee, they understand the intimate knowledge of every aspect. And in doing so, they come to appreciate the interesting parts of the worst entries in the field. And the experiences those entries mean. To give another data point, I really like pocket knives. I've been collecting them for nearly twenty years. I have some very expensive ones. My daily carries are usually around $200 or so. I seldom use them, however, and never heavily. And I often trade them away for other people's pocket knives. I love those $40 beaters that have seen a life of real and heavy use. Those knives exist in a state of their own, just like bad coffee: they weren't created to be perfect, and nobody involved took as much care as they should. But the flaws make the end result more-valuable, in an important way."Wabi-sabi" might truly be the meaning of existence.

criddell 4y ago

What are you ordering at Starbucks? I’ve found, if they aren’t too busy, you can ask the barista about the beans they currently have and order a pour over or French press that’s pretty good.

wrycoder 4y ago
Yeah, well, if you want something really bad, order a Starbucks espresso in their paper cup.
- jhugo 4y ago
  Meh, it's not that bad (at least outside the US, I've never been to a Starbucks in the US). I've been to plenty of places where Starbucks is the best espresso you can find.
  - wrycoder 4y ago
    I think it's the odor from the paper cup and the overall low quality experience compared to using a nice ceramic cup is what bothers me.
    - mbg721 4y ago
      A proper ceramic cup is a good thing.
    - jhugo 4y ago
      Most Starbucks (again, possibly a non-US perspective) will make your drink in a ceramic cup/mug if asked. Only the smallest kiosk-type ones can't do it.

ethbr0 4y ago

Well put. Starbucks has become the LongHorn of coffee: once super-local quality, now a thin gruel of mediocrity with fancy branding. And in the process they've wiped out most independent coffee shops.

jen20 4y ago
Have they? As far as I can tell there are now vastly more craft coffee shops than there ever were.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  Per my experience, there used to be a ton (~90s), then Starbucks took off and killed a lot of them (00-10s), and now they seem to be coming back as people avoid Starbucks (20s). But imagine that's subject to regional variance.
- jhugo 4y ago
  Indeed; for example the recent arrival and success of Starbucks in Italy was in some ways possible because of the pre-existing growth of 'craft'-type coffee shops which had expanded the idea of coffee, and of a coffee shop, beyond the traditional 'bar'.

tomjakubowski 4y ago

Big coffee guy, not really a fan of sbucks, but their "via" blonde roast is the best instant coffee I've had, ideal for camping coffee. Unfortunately the stuff I've had from smaller roasters (eg Verve) isn't that great.

hanklazard 4y ago
That’s true, their instant packs are probably my fav Sbucks product. So damn convenient/portable.
- twangist 4y ago
  I third this opinion. Their instant packs are their best coffees.

luma 4y ago

My thing with Starbucks is that they have an opinionated flavor profile that trends heavily to (to me) wildly over-roasted. If that's what a person likes, have fun go bananas I'm not here to judge, but I don't think it's too crazy that someone just finds all Starbucks coffee to be hard to drink. Also, what's up Rocket buddy :D

hanklazard 4y ago
Rocket is the best! Upgraded from a Gaggia Classic (which my dad is now enjoying). The fact that I can make a latte that I genuinely think is better than a lot of the coffee places around me has really taken my snobbery to the next level (joking … sort of)

xeromal 4y ago

I'm in the same boat as you. I have a rolly-cart that I break out every day with all my coffee gadgets, but something about my local 7-11 coffee makes me go there at least once a week. They actually have solid coffee compared to all the other 7-11s around me, but it's also the short drive and talking to the nice owner that remembers me.

MAGZine 4y ago

starbucks can be good, the trick is to order: 1. espresso drinks 2. order one shot extra (starbucks will only put 1 shot of espresso in an 12oz tall--so you should order AT LEAST one extra shot). 3. ask for blonde roast, which is actually not half bad. pike place/standard is a disaster. it will not parallel any craft coffee shop, but this actually makes for drinkable coffee, which is convenient since there are starbucks literally everywhere.

coffee_beqn 4y ago
Their cold brew based drinks are also good (as a espresso machine owning snob)
- sakras 4y ago
  Yes I love getting a large nitro cold brew and dumping milk in it! Helped me lose a lot of weight too!
  - brunoqc 4y ago
    > Helped me lose a lot of weight too! How? I hope it's not like in Requiem for a Dream with the old lady.
    - dsr_ 4y ago
      It's a lot of caffeine. If you aren't reminded that you're supposed to be hungry, you may not feel hungry until it's almost time for dinner.
      - sakras 4y ago
        To elaborate, I usually end up mixing 3 cups of whole milk over the span of the day into it (usually done by 2pm), and then the combination of the fat and the caffeine keeps me full for a while after that, so I end up only having 450 calories until dinner, where even a large 1000 calorie dinner will keep me below my calorie goal.

guggalugalug 4y ago

Plus one for 'as long as it's not down the middle'. Or, nothing by half measures. Gas station coffee is a Rite. I am not a maniac, I use a burr grinder for locally & lightly roasted beans, and a v60. With an electric kettle that's about a five minute process, $1.30/300ml. On the other hand, nothing beats an early morning pop-in to the 7/11, couple 24oz "Regular Roast" cups, slide the cardboard sleeves on, fit the lids, pack of non filtered Camels, and, as you say, a long trip in the car.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago
Do you find the unfiltered Camels have any kind of dulling effect on the coffee flavour (or any flavour for that matter)?

discardable_dan 4y ago

> As for coffee, like many other parts of life (movies, food, and music especially), I find that I like it very good or very bad—as long as it’s not down the middle, I can find a time/place to enjoy it. I agree, but I think it's slightly more! The author doesn't like coffee, they understand the intimate knowledge of every aspect. And in doing so, they come to appreciate the interesting parts of the worst entries in the field. And the experiences those entries mean. To give another data point, I really like pocket knives. I've been collecting them for nearly twenty years. I have some very expensive ones. My daily carries are usually around $200 or so. I seldom use them, however, and never heavily. And I often trade them away for other people's pocket knives. I love those $40 beaters that have seen a life of real and heavy use. Those knives exist in a state of their own, just like bad coffee: they weren't created to be perfect, and nobody involved took as much care as they should. But the flaws make the end result more-valuable, in an important way."Wabi-sabi" might truly be the meaning of existence.