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The May 1938 elections were absolutely free. Where did you get that they weren't free? > And even there, women voted less for SdP than the overall German commu

by jhgb 4y ago

The May 1938 elections were absolutely free. Where did you get that they weren't free? > And even there, women voted less for SdP than the overall German community did. 80% minimum is "less than overall German community"? > That a German minority would be largely in favor joining Germany is propably not a big surprise, is it? "Of course they voted for Nazis" is the exact opposite of "but they didn't vote for Nazis". > And as said, even then women voted less for the SdP. So please stop posting unsubstantiated claims. You yourself admit it's not unsubstantiated.

hef19898 4y ago
Which elections were free? The once in Germany, which the SdP didn't participate in definitely were not. The communal ebelctions in Sudetenland of 1938? Kind of free, but people bot supporting the Nazi allied SdP were already harassed and presured to vote SdP. That under these circumstances women voted less for Nazis then men is kind of note-worthy. But since I do not expect you to argue in good faith or to provide some facts, I'll stop it here. The Anschluss and the Munich Agreement, along with the history of the Sudetenland, is too conolex a topic to discuss in such a manner.
- jhgb 4y ago
  "Kind of free?" Are you kidding me? The absolutely laughable claim above was that women were not to be blamed for the electoral victories of Nazis. The fact that at least 80% of German women in Czechoslovakia voted for Nazis in free elections demolishes that absurdity.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Ok, apparently I can't stop... Source to the claim that elections in 1938, those we are talking about were not free: https://web.archive.org/web/20111110054101/http://www.uni-duesseldorf.de/home/Jahrbuch/2004/PDF/Brandes.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20111110054101/http://www.uni-du... And yes, a difference of 20% is quite significant. Also, German citizens enabled the Nazi, no doubt about that. The situation in Czechoslovakia in 1938 is different: - the Sudetenland was dominated by a German minority, that German candidates fare better among German voters is not a big surprise - joining Germany wasn't an unpopular policy, not in Austria nor in the Sudetenland, that a party favouring that policy does well during elections isn't a big surprise neither - those elections envolved a lot of intimidation to vote for the SdP, that means better results for the SdP Just one question, what is it with you trying to pin those Henlein election results on women?
    - jhgb 4y ago
      The Czechoslovak Republic was pretty much the last democratic country in the region. To say that those elections were "not free" requires a massive amount of guts. They were as free as you get in that time and place. If 90% of a German minority votes for an openly Nazi politician with an openly Nazi agenda, then 90% of that German minority are openly Nazi. Case closed, period. > the Sudetenland was dominated by a German minority, that German candidates fare better among German voters is not a big surprise Ah, so they had to vote for the Nazi. > joining Germany wasn't an unpopular policy, not in Austria nor in the Sudetenland, that a party favouring that policy does well during elections isn't a big surprise neither Ah, I see. "That doesn't count because it was popular." I assume you must also be an apologist for illegal Russian annexation of parts of Ukraine as well? > those elections envolved a lot of intimidation to vote for the SdP, that means better results for the SdP Yes, so many years after comparably free German elections, Nazis got even more votes in a country with less previous Nazi influence, and that means that these vastly higher results (2x or so?) were due to "intimidation". > Just one question, what is it with you trying to pin those Henlein election results on women? I'm not "pinning the results on women". I'm pinning them on all Germans who voted that way, which does not exclude German women as some kind of a group repressed by some "male loserdom", as claimed above. They were complicit in it to pretty much same degree as the male part of the population.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        You didn't even look at the source, did you? An election is not free if one party, the SdP, uses intimidation againstvall other candidates. Up to the point that in some districs the SdP list eas the only one available. The SdP, with help from the Nazis, build up pressure on families of DSAP (social democrats) candidates. Economically, not supporting the SdP was a death sentence. The list goes on. It was the SdP who made those elections not free, not Czech authorities. And despite this climate of fear, women voted, again using your numbers, 20% less for the SdP than men. Nitpick so, those Sudetendeutsche enabled the local Nazi allies to win a communal election and get to "go home to the Reich". They did not enable the Nazi's rise to power in Germany. As far as losers go: The German minority was economically desperate in the 30s, unemployment was rampant, industry loosing contracts, self determination was deteriorating. So yes, in a sense those were losers. Men, apparently, felt more like losers than women. Or they lacked the courage to not fall in line. The election results clearly show that. I say that as being a direct decendant from those losers, and I have no idea how my grandparents voted back then, or would have if they were old enough to vote in 1938 that is. I assume so, that they would have clearly favored Henlein, both of them.

by jhgb 4y ago

hef19898 4y ago

Which elections were free? The once in Germany, which the SdP didn't participate in definitely were not. The communal ebelctions in Sudetenland of 1938? Kind of free, but people bot supporting the Nazi allied SdP were already harassed and presured to vote SdP. That under these circumstances women voted less for Nazis then men is kind of note-worthy. But since I do not expect you to argue in good faith or to provide some facts, I'll stop it here. The Anschluss and the Munich Agreement, along with the history of the Sudetenland, is too conolex a topic to discuss in such a manner.

jhgb 4y ago
"Kind of free?" Are you kidding me? The absolutely laughable claim above was that women were not to be blamed for the electoral victories of Nazis. The fact that at least 80% of German women in Czechoslovakia voted for Nazis in free elections demolishes that absurdity.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Ok, apparently I can't stop... Source to the claim that elections in 1938, those we are talking about were not free: https://web.archive.org/web/20111110054101/http://www.uni-duesseldorf.de/home/Jahrbuch/2004/PDF/Brandes.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20111110054101/http://www.uni-du... And yes, a difference of 20% is quite significant. Also, German citizens enabled the Nazi, no doubt about that. The situation in Czechoslovakia in 1938 is different: - the Sudetenland was dominated by a German minority, that German candidates fare better among German voters is not a big surprise - joining Germany wasn't an unpopular policy, not in Austria nor in the Sudetenland, that a party favouring that policy does well during elections isn't a big surprise neither - those elections envolved a lot of intimidation to vote for the SdP, that means better results for the SdP Just one question, what is it with you trying to pin those Henlein election results on women?
  - jhgb 4y ago
    The Czechoslovak Republic was pretty much the last democratic country in the region. To say that those elections were "not free" requires a massive amount of guts. They were as free as you get in that time and place. If 90% of a German minority votes for an openly Nazi politician with an openly Nazi agenda, then 90% of that German minority are openly Nazi. Case closed, period. > the Sudetenland was dominated by a German minority, that German candidates fare better among German voters is not a big surprise Ah, so they had to vote for the Nazi. > joining Germany wasn't an unpopular policy, not in Austria nor in the Sudetenland, that a party favouring that policy does well during elections isn't a big surprise neither Ah, I see. "That doesn't count because it was popular." I assume you must also be an apologist for illegal Russian annexation of parts of Ukraine as well? > those elections envolved a lot of intimidation to vote for the SdP, that means better results for the SdP Yes, so many years after comparably free German elections, Nazis got even more votes in a country with less previous Nazi influence, and that means that these vastly higher results (2x or so?) were due to "intimidation". > Just one question, what is it with you trying to pin those Henlein election results on women? I'm not "pinning the results on women". I'm pinning them on all Germans who voted that way, which does not exclude German women as some kind of a group repressed by some "male loserdom", as claimed above. They were complicit in it to pretty much same degree as the male part of the population.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      You didn't even look at the source, did you? An election is not free if one party, the SdP, uses intimidation againstvall other candidates. Up to the point that in some districs the SdP list eas the only one available. The SdP, with help from the Nazis, build up pressure on families of DSAP (social democrats) candidates. Economically, not supporting the SdP was a death sentence. The list goes on. It was the SdP who made those elections not free, not Czech authorities. And despite this climate of fear, women voted, again using your numbers, 20% less for the SdP than men. Nitpick so, those Sudetendeutsche enabled the local Nazi allies to win a communal election and get to "go home to the Reich". They did not enable the Nazi's rise to power in Germany. As far as losers go: The German minority was economically desperate in the 30s, unemployment was rampant, industry loosing contracts, self determination was deteriorating. So yes, in a sense those were losers. Men, apparently, felt more like losers than women. Or they lacked the courage to not fall in line. The election results clearly show that. I say that as being a direct decendant from those losers, and I have no idea how my grandparents voted back then, or would have if they were old enough to vote in 1938 that is. I assume so, that they would have clearly favored Henlein, both of them.