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Any half-decent IDE created in this century gives you both these features and much more. I remember selecting the type of the new project in Visual Studio 6.0 a
by usrnm 4y ago
Any half-decent IDE created in this century gives you both these features and much more. I remember selecting the type of the new project in Visual Studio 6.0 and getting either a console "Hello, world" or a full-blown GUI application. VS 6.0 is literally older than some engineers I work with today
- HexDecOctBin 4y agoToo many people believe in the superiority of Linux as an OS for software development that they would consider it beneath them to even notice Windows toolchains, and would then be flabbergasted by the idea of project templates.
- rightbyte 4y agoIn my experience "IDE lockin" is terrible to work with in the long run. After 5+ years trying to compile old Visual Studio or Eclipse projects is a horrible experience.
- HexDecOctBin 4y agoSure, I agree, though not anymore horrible than dealing with Autotools. Shitty developer tooling is a different question (and a very important one that I trying to solve), but I am simply talking about being unaware of the simplest features because of one's ideological blinders.
- AshamedCaptain 4y agoAnd I have quite the feeling it will be identical to compiling one of these "package managed" projects whose dependencies are expressed as Github URLs.
- jiggawatts 4y agoMine is the opposite. Visual Studio makes it a breeze to pick up some random person’s work, often after decades of time if the projects can be upgraded. Even if not… I recently installed Visual Studio 2015 in a VM to build an old project and it was perfectly fine. Can it show smiley emoji in string literals? No, but it does a lot more for me as a programmer than a text editor!
- josephg 4y agoThis isn’t my experience of running old VC++ projects. They usually end up with some weird linker errors because they embed a hardcoded DLL or something which was compiled with an old version of visual studio or something. You get a lot better at fixing these errors with experience, but I’ve lost count of the number of hours I’ve lost noodling with this stuff to compile some old code. Speaking of progress, I adore this improvement in modern languages. C#, Swift, Rust and nodejs all have officially defined project configuration alongside the source code. I expect to be able to “cargo run” any of my rust programs in 50 years from now just as easily as I can today.
- HexDecOctBin 4y ago50 years from now, "Swift, Rust and nodejs" might not exist. For that sort of time period, you either need a language whose compiler & runtime is easy to write (C, Forth, Scheme, etc.) or a language that compiles to standardised bytecode (C#, Java, etc.).
- josephg 4y agoWhy wouldn’t they exist?
- HexDecOctBin 4y agoBecause things die.
- jiggawatts 4y agoThat's not an issue with "Visual Studio as an IDE", but "Microsoft's C++ build toolchain" combined with specific issues with C++ the language itself, such as: not having a stable ABI, no truly common stdlib, no package manager, and weird linker conflicts due to the way headers interact with static values. This is the primary reason I've abandoned C++ programming in general, and I'm never going back. From what I can see, the alternative C++ toolchains from other vendors (and open source) aren't fundamentally better. They might paper over one or two issues, but rarely solve the core problem in a permanent way. These days I do only C# and Rust for the same reason you mentioned -- sane project, dependency, and build management.
- Wohlf 4y agoFor all its warts Visual Studio is hands down the best IDE, the only thing even close is JetBrains.
- atomicnumber3 4y agoSince when are project templates windows only? I spent a year in college using KDevelop like 10 years ago and it had project templates, as did netbeans.
- HexDecOctBin 4y agoWell, most of the people who fetishise Linux/UNIX would also not use KDevelop because of their deep devotion to the UNIX philosophy. I'm sure neither KDevelop does only one thing, nor does it does what it does well ("well" as defined by UNIX enthusiasts wielding pipes and shells).
- ffhhj 4y agoMoved to Linux due to Win11 fiasco, and the command tools are actually much better, was able to run whatever .exe with Wine, and still use VSCode.
- atwood22 4y agoI’ve tried developing on Windows and found it to be terrible. Even at the most fundamental basic level, like how files get locked when opened and cannot be removed unless the file handle is closed. And deploying on Windows is even worse. How do you run something when the server starts? Modify some random registry settings to log in a user and then setup some startup items (all via a GUI) to trigger your software. And of course there is no good way to get your software onto the host. There is no ssh equivalent and ssh sucks on windows because of the aforementioned file lock issue. Windows devs I talked to built new machine images (because no Docker) for each deployment, a process that takes like 30 minutes to an hour. Oh, and there was that one time I accidentally let Unity install Visual Studio instead of VS Code. What a terrible IDE. By modern standards it’s so slow and heavyweight.
- oblio 4y agoYou don't seem to be having a ton of Windows experience and it shows. It's like someone who used Linux for a few weeks complaining, the entire community would pile on and send you to RTFM :-) Task Scheduler has a CLI. It's even usable from PowerShell. There are tons of remoting options, etc, etc.
- majkinetor 4y agoShameful how people come from one OS to completelly different one and expect the same things. All mentioned things are easy once you know where you came to and know how to behave properly.
- oblio 4y agoThis happens super frequently. Someone with a ton of POSIX experience, gained through blood, sweat and tears over years and years, moves over to the "easy" Windows world. Then they complain about not being able to do the exact same things on day 1, with 0 effort. They'd be laughed at for ages the other way round, and justifiably so.
- 4y ago
- tialaramex 4y ago> Any half-decent IDE created in this century gives you both these features and much more If you've paid for the expensive "Professional" Visual Studio .NET in 2002, you do indeed get version control. But it's Visual SourceSafe, which is garbage†. Fortunately, it's optional, so you probably just never switch it on (it's not default) and don't use any version control at all, so you're back to square one. If you're just using the (cheaper) Microsoft Visual C++.NET for example - whose users I imagine would have believed they had an IDE - you don't get Visual SourceSafe. As we saw that's probably no problem since you don't want VSS anyway, but it does mean you do not, in fact, get version control out of the box, you're going to need to pay Microsoft $$$ (or, try using anybody else's offerings which are better and many of them are free...) Either way, you're not getting that comparable experience. † It's markedly worse than CVS, which itself is awful. Microsoft actually sold VSS for money rather than giving it away and so there was (until 2005) a team at Microsoft maintaining it. As I understand it the revision control of the Visual SourceSafe software itself was eventually... a Perforce repo (technically "Source Depot" Microsoft's internal-use licensed fork of Perforce's software). This is not an endorsement of your confidence in your own product.
- legalcorrection 4y agoOkay but VS uses git now.
- oaiey 4y agoAt the time we happily used also tools outside of VS like CVS, SVN and then later git. Also, VS came also with TFS Version Control which was better than CVS (not much tough) or source safe.