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I always find these discussions interesting. The risks that the article outlines around losing track of how much you're spending are certainly real, but there's

I always find these discussions interesting. The risks that the article outlines around losing track of how much you're spending are certainly real, but there's two things that strike me around all of this: 1. I somewhat object to them including things like Disney+ or MLB in this calculation. Sure, it's an app subscription, but you're primarily not paying for an app with its features and development, you're buying access to content that you happen to be receiving and paying for via an app. You wouldn't include subscriptions to products on Amazon as an "app subscription" even if you bought it through the Amazon app. 2. I'm curious to balance the rise of the subscription model with what I see as a generally increased quality and upkeep of many of the apps that are on it. There's obviously exceptions, but apps like Carrot Weather, Craft, and Flighty I find to be a generally superior experience to the $3 single-purchase apps that they generally replaced. Many of them are on the cutting edge of using new OS features well, for instance Carrot's widget support is amazing. I've totally forgotten the dread of an OS update where half of your programs just stop working for weeks or months, or even forever.

ghaff 4y ago
Yeah, while he did categorize the subscriptions, I do think it would be useful to break things down as content, applications, and infrastructure. There's some overlap as with Apple One (which includes both storage and News+ for example), but it probably makes sense to separate out a Disney+ from a Grammarly.
- noirbot 4y ago
  I even see Grammarly as being in an odd category since it's also presumably something they use on a computer and not just an app. I'd split it up as Content, Services, and Applications. Something like Apple News, The New York Times, or MLB you're buying access via an app to content you could potentially get/consume via non-app means, though likely still paid. Services like a Grammerly or a VPN are an ongoing cost for usage. Applications like a Bear or Carrot Weather are purely optional. You could use Notes and Apple Weather if you wanted, but you're paying an extra X per month to fund the development and upkeep of a tool you find use out of. The split I think helps you identify what you may want to stop paying for because each of those are slightly different calculations. You could maybe replace Netflix with a local library card, or just buying theater tickets and DVDs. You could go back to using Notes or some other app instead of using Bear. There's no real alternative to paying for a VPN, so that becomes harder to decide you no longer need once you've decided you need it.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    With content in particular, there's far more of it out there both streaming and otherwise than anyone has time to watch. Indeed, it probably makes sense, if one were to budget, to have something entertainment as a category of which streaming is just a subcategory. It's certainly an area where you can end up subscribing for some show and then you really don't get your money's worth. I don't watch a huge amount of video and I'm always leaning in that direction.
Nextgrid 4y ago
> apps like Carrot Weather, Craft, and Flighty I find to be a generally superior experience to the $3 single-purchase apps that they generally replaced Not sure about the last 2 but a weather app is a simple problem that needs to be solved once and then never messed with again - I would personally prefer my weather app not to be constantly updated. The last thing I want is the UI on my weather app to change all the time. I don't go buy a new screwdriver or hammer despite newer and slightly better models being available unless the existing one breaks or stops being compatible (let's say a new kind of screw/nail became mainstream). I want the same from my utility apps. The collection of weather data itself is a different task but that's something that's already often done by governments and given away for free (as we pay for it indirectly via taxes).
- noirbot 4y ago
  But they're not changing the UI regularly for the most part, they're offering new and more convenient optional UI elements that are useful. Or providing good Day-1 support for new OS notification features or new options on Apple Watch. It also helps pay for their use of those weather data and forecasting APIs, some of the more effective of which are private and paid APIs. And that's totally ignoring that almost nothing, especially in mobile apps can just be "written once and never updated". APIs change, new sizes of device come out...
- layer8 4y ago
  What you pay for isn’t generally updates to the app, but the service of sourcing, processing and consolidating the weather data for the way it is presented by the app. I use three different weather apps (only one of them with a subscription, $1 per year) because each has unique aspects of its data and presentation that are useful depending on the use case. One of them has diagrams combining forecasts from 20 different data sources for the next week (which gives a nice overview of the spread of forecasts for each day), sources which I don’t think are all free.
slotrans 4y ago
INCREASED quality? I think we live on different planets...
- noirbot 4y ago
  It's obviously not every app, but I pay for Carrot, Overcast, and Parcel, and would consider Flighty if I flew more than I do currently. I can earnestly say that all three have been best-in-class apps for what they do, and for 20, 10, and 5 dollars per year, I don't mind funding their development.
nirvdrum 4y ago
I go a bit the other way. I can't stand the constant turmoil in an app's UI in the name of whatever new UX thing is being experimented with. I'd much rather have big updates in one go that I can evaluate on their own merit. That doesn't totally preclude a subscription model, but it is how most subscription services work. Lately, I've been forced to update mobile apps just to connect to whatever backing service. It's obnoxious because even with auto-updates enabled, it may not have updated yet. And now I need to wait for the update or just not use it if in an area with limited cellular coverage. I appreciate recurring revenue helps businesses, but that's true of all businesses. Software just has the lock-in, generally, to enforce it. If this is the only way to pay for stuff, though, I think JetBrains has the best model I've seen. I pay a subscription and can update software on my own schedule. If I decide to stop, I have a fallback perpetual use license.
- noirbot 4y ago
  I think that really depends on the app in question. Often these apps have a free version where you can evaluate if you think they'll cause UX Turmoil, and then support the ones that are reasonable. If anything, I find my subscription money helps to support smaller developers and developer teams that tend to be better about not being all about meteoric growth and trend-chasing and focus more on just delivering a quality product.
makeitdouble 4y ago
On the “subscriptions or not” part, the useful distinction is what’s left when you cancel. Amazon products, even if you paid monthly to get them would still be in your hand, and potentially of value if you canceled your subscription. Same goes for “build this ship one piece a month” kind of irl subscriptions: arguably nobody would buy your half built ship, but it’s still in your hand when you stop paying, and it makes a decent paperweight. Disney+ or MLB leave nothing if you unsubscribe, in that respect looking at it the same way as Adobe CS if fair imo.
- noirbot 4y ago
  I'm not sure if that's true though - If I subscribe to Disney+ for a month and watch hours of movies and TV shows that I enjoy, someone from Disney doesn't come by my house and mind-wipe me when unsubscribe. What's left when I cancel a media subscription is all the enjoyment I had in the past while engaging with the media it provided, and maybe the conversations I had with friends or family about the Baseball game we all watched. They don't "leave nothing" any more than going to spend time with a friend leaves you with nothing when you come home after. That seems meaningfully different than something like Adobe CS or a VPN - When I cancel my VPN subscription, I no longer have a VPN. I don't subscribe to Adobe CS because I inherently enjoy my time using Adobe CS, I do it because it's helpful for a hobby or job I have.

ghaff 4y ago

Yeah, while he did categorize the subscriptions, I do think it would be useful to break things down as content, applications, and infrastructure. There's some overlap as with Apple One (which includes both storage and News+ for example), but it probably makes sense to separate out a Disney+ from a Grammarly.

noirbot 4y ago
I even see Grammarly as being in an odd category since it's also presumably something they use on a computer and not just an app. I'd split it up as Content, Services, and Applications. Something like Apple News, The New York Times, or MLB you're buying access via an app to content you could potentially get/consume via non-app means, though likely still paid. Services like a Grammerly or a VPN are an ongoing cost for usage. Applications like a Bear or Carrot Weather are purely optional. You could use Notes and Apple Weather if you wanted, but you're paying an extra X per month to fund the development and upkeep of a tool you find use out of. The split I think helps you identify what you may want to stop paying for because each of those are slightly different calculations. You could maybe replace Netflix with a local library card, or just buying theater tickets and DVDs. You could go back to using Notes or some other app instead of using Bear. There's no real alternative to paying for a VPN, so that becomes harder to decide you no longer need once you've decided you need it.
- ghaff 4y ago
  With content in particular, there's far more of it out there both streaming and otherwise than anyone has time to watch. Indeed, it probably makes sense, if one were to budget, to have something entertainment as a category of which streaming is just a subcategory. It's certainly an area where you can end up subscribing for some show and then you really don't get your money's worth. I don't watch a huge amount of video and I'm always leaning in that direction.

Nextgrid 4y ago

> apps like Carrot Weather, Craft, and Flighty I find to be a generally superior experience to the $3 single-purchase apps that they generally replaced Not sure about the last 2 but a weather app is a simple problem that needs to be solved once and then never messed with again - I would personally prefer my weather app not to be constantly updated. The last thing I want is the UI on my weather app to change all the time. I don't go buy a new screwdriver or hammer despite newer and slightly better models being available unless the existing one breaks or stops being compatible (let's say a new kind of screw/nail became mainstream). I want the same from my utility apps. The collection of weather data itself is a different task but that's something that's already often done by governments and given away for free (as we pay for it indirectly via taxes).

noirbot 4y ago
But they're not changing the UI regularly for the most part, they're offering new and more convenient optional UI elements that are useful. Or providing good Day-1 support for new OS notification features or new options on Apple Watch. It also helps pay for their use of those weather data and forecasting APIs, some of the more effective of which are private and paid APIs. And that's totally ignoring that almost nothing, especially in mobile apps can just be "written once and never updated". APIs change, new sizes of device come out...
layer8 4y ago
What you pay for isn’t generally updates to the app, but the service of sourcing, processing and consolidating the weather data for the way it is presented by the app. I use three different weather apps (only one of them with a subscription, $1 per year) because each has unique aspects of its data and presentation that are useful depending on the use case. One of them has diagrams combining forecasts from 20 different data sources for the next week (which gives a nice overview of the spread of forecasts for each day), sources which I don’t think are all free.

slotrans 4y ago

INCREASED quality? I think we live on different planets...

noirbot 4y ago
It's obviously not every app, but I pay for Carrot, Overcast, and Parcel, and would consider Flighty if I flew more than I do currently. I can earnestly say that all three have been best-in-class apps for what they do, and for 20, 10, and 5 dollars per year, I don't mind funding their development.

nirvdrum 4y ago

I go a bit the other way. I can't stand the constant turmoil in an app's UI in the name of whatever new UX thing is being experimented with. I'd much rather have big updates in one go that I can evaluate on their own merit. That doesn't totally preclude a subscription model, but it is how most subscription services work. Lately, I've been forced to update mobile apps just to connect to whatever backing service. It's obnoxious because even with auto-updates enabled, it may not have updated yet. And now I need to wait for the update or just not use it if in an area with limited cellular coverage. I appreciate recurring revenue helps businesses, but that's true of all businesses. Software just has the lock-in, generally, to enforce it. If this is the only way to pay for stuff, though, I think JetBrains has the best model I've seen. I pay a subscription and can update software on my own schedule. If I decide to stop, I have a fallback perpetual use license.

noirbot 4y ago
I think that really depends on the app in question. Often these apps have a free version where you can evaluate if you think they'll cause UX Turmoil, and then support the ones that are reasonable. If anything, I find my subscription money helps to support smaller developers and developer teams that tend to be better about not being all about meteoric growth and trend-chasing and focus more on just delivering a quality product.

makeitdouble 4y ago

On the “subscriptions or not” part, the useful distinction is what’s left when you cancel. Amazon products, even if you paid monthly to get them would still be in your hand, and potentially of value if you canceled your subscription. Same goes for “build this ship one piece a month” kind of irl subscriptions: arguably nobody would buy your half built ship, but it’s still in your hand when you stop paying, and it makes a decent paperweight. Disney+ or MLB leave nothing if you unsubscribe, in that respect looking at it the same way as Adobe CS if fair imo.

noirbot 4y ago
I'm not sure if that's true though - If I subscribe to Disney+ for a month and watch hours of movies and TV shows that I enjoy, someone from Disney doesn't come by my house and mind-wipe me when unsubscribe. What's left when I cancel a media subscription is all the enjoyment I had in the past while engaging with the media it provided, and maybe the conversations I had with friends or family about the Baseball game we all watched. They don't "leave nothing" any more than going to spend time with a friend leaves you with nothing when you come home after. That seems meaningfully different than something like Adobe CS or a VPN - When I cancel my VPN subscription, I no longer have a VPN. I don't subscribe to Adobe CS because I inherently enjoy my time using Adobe CS, I do it because it's helpful for a hobby or job I have.