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> The one that I live most of my time in, Norway, does not seem to have growing discontent The mass shooting and terrorism rate there increasing seems like a r

> The one that I live most of my time in, Norway, does not seem to have growing discontent The mass shooting and terrorism rate there increasing seems like a reasonable counter to that idea. Along with steady suicide rates despite massively increasing spending on it.

magicalist 4y ago
> The mass shooting singular > and terrorism rate there increasing er, no? > Along with steady suicide rates So not growing, then. I don't think anyone's going to argue Norway has solved society but let's not twist things to try to fit someone's off the cuff head canon.
- gjm11 4y ago
  Pretty sure it's meant to be parsed as "(mass shooting and terrorism) rate": that is, he's claiming that the rate of mass-shootings and the rate of terrorist atrocities are both increasing. I don't know whether either part of that is true, but if it's wrong what's wrong isn't that "mass shooting" is singular. (And if, as grandparent claims, suicide rates are "steady [] despite massively increasing spending on it", that does seem like evidence of something getting worse. Again, I don't know whether it's actually true and I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't, but the criticism here doesn't seem fair.)
- alex_sf 4y ago
  While I do love the quote line-by-line format, you are splitting up sentences and completely changing my post, which is, at least, in bad faith. > singular ... er, no? Mass shooting and terrorism _rate_. Are you familiar with the concept of a rate? Also, 'mass shooting' is very much not singular, unless you have an exceptionally short memory. > So not growing, then. You are, again, changing what I wrote. Here, let me fix that for you: > Along with steady suicide rates despite massively increasing spending on it.
  - nl 4y ago
    > The mass shooting and terrorism rate there increasing There have been 4 "mass shootings" in Norway[1] One in 1988 (4 deaths) - perpetrator was insane, with no motive One in 2011 (77 killed) - perpetrator was a Neo-Nazi terrorist One in 2021 (5 killed) - perpetrator was insane, with no motive One in 2022 (2 killed) - perpetrator was an Islamic terrorist The rate per year there is so low that any real attempt to measure the rate is lost in random variations. I think it's fair to say the rate is higher over the last 20 years than the previous 20 but beyond that is difficult. And I don't think you can draw any substantive conclusions from that. > Along with steady suicide rates despite massively increasing spending on it. Suicide rates have declined substantially since the 1990s. "From 1990 to 2000 the suicide rate declined and stabilized at the levels that we have today. In 2020, the suicide rate was 12.3 per 100 000 inhabitants. This is 25 per cent lower than in 1990 when the rate was 16.4 per 100,000 inhabitants" It is now roughly the same as most Western countries, and much lower than Finland or in Eastern Europe, Russia, China or Japan. One could argue that shows Norway has been successful in reducing suicide and that ~10/100,000 people is a floor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Nor... [2] https://www.fhi.no/en/op/hin/mental-health/suicide/ https://www.fhi.no/en/op/hin/mental-health/suicide/

magicalist 4y ago

> The mass shooting singular > and terrorism rate there increasing er, no? > Along with steady suicide rates So not growing, then. I don't think anyone's going to argue Norway has solved society but let's not twist things to try to fit someone's off the cuff head canon.

gjm11 4y ago
Pretty sure it's meant to be parsed as "(mass shooting and terrorism) rate": that is, he's claiming that the rate of mass-shootings and the rate of terrorist atrocities are both increasing. I don't know whether either part of that is true, but if it's wrong what's wrong isn't that "mass shooting" is singular. (And if, as grandparent claims, suicide rates are "steady [] despite massively increasing spending on it", that does seem like evidence of something getting worse. Again, I don't know whether it's actually true and I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't, but the criticism here doesn't seem fair.)
alex_sf 4y ago
While I do love the quote line-by-line format, you are splitting up sentences and completely changing my post, which is, at least, in bad faith. > singular ... er, no? Mass shooting and terrorism _rate_. Are you familiar with the concept of a rate? Also, 'mass shooting' is very much not singular, unless you have an exceptionally short memory. > So not growing, then. You are, again, changing what I wrote. Here, let me fix that for you: > Along with steady suicide rates despite massively increasing spending on it.
- nl 4y ago
  > The mass shooting and terrorism rate there increasing There have been 4 "mass shootings" in Norway[1] One in 1988 (4 deaths) - perpetrator was insane, with no motive One in 2011 (77 killed) - perpetrator was a Neo-Nazi terrorist One in 2021 (5 killed) - perpetrator was insane, with no motive One in 2022 (2 killed) - perpetrator was an Islamic terrorist The rate per year there is so low that any real attempt to measure the rate is lost in random variations. I think it's fair to say the rate is higher over the last 20 years than the previous 20 but beyond that is difficult. And I don't think you can draw any substantive conclusions from that. > Along with steady suicide rates despite massively increasing spending on it. Suicide rates have declined substantially since the 1990s. "From 1990 to 2000 the suicide rate declined and stabilized at the levels that we have today. In 2020, the suicide rate was 12.3 per 100 000 inhabitants. This is 25 per cent lower than in 1990 when the rate was 16.4 per 100,000 inhabitants" It is now roughly the same as most Western countries, and much lower than Finland or in Eastern Europe, Russia, China or Japan. One could argue that shows Norway has been successful in reducing suicide and that ~10/100,000 people is a floor. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_Nor... [2] https://www.fhi.no/en/op/hin/mental-health/suicide/ https://www.fhi.no/en/op/hin/mental-health/suicide/