5 ms·

How to Tax Cloud Computing?

9 points by ceohockey60 4y ago

giuliomagnifico 4y ago
Interesting article but he wants to tax the “profit of compute, network, etc…” but how you can legally define the profits generate from network data or computing power? You can already tax the power consumption, or the company profits, but I see hard to find what he describes in the article. And also lots of super computer are made by states/research centers/universities and companies already pay to use the computing capability.
- rnk 4y ago
  The real thing they're trying to tax is some part of the massive impact that AI and other automation will have on the economy and lives of people who will lose jobs. It's just going to be harder and harder to have a decent lifestyle in the US if you aren't fortunate to have great education in a important area that isn't automated. If I had a factory that used to employ a thousand people to make widgets and it gets automated and now makes the same with only 50 people, probably the cost of production is lower, but 950 people lost their jobs. In my West Coast city we already have tons of people that can't find a job (some lost through automation?) where they can afford an apartment and so they live in their cars and later they live on the street. This is going to happen to increasing parts of the population in the US.
tyingq 4y ago
I suppose it would create a new market for clouds run by non-US entities.
- verdverm 4y ago
  Maybe, but if they run servers in the US, and you will need servers in the US, then you would still have to comply There are already many non-US data centers to choose from
huitzitziltzin 4y ago
A great example of why it does not make sense to take random policy thoughts from billionaires particularly seriously. This idea seems at best unworkable.
missedthecue 4y ago
In Europe you pay VAT on servers
- late2part 4y ago
  In the USA you pay sales or use tax on servers.
  - beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
    And on the electricity, the real-estate, the income, the employee payroll... Unless you're a hyperscaler then you just don't. I wonder how mark thinks they won't just dodge this one as well
beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
No mark we don't need digital realestate taxes we need the hyperscalers to pay their regular ass taxes they're supposed to be paying and enforce sustainability regulations.
danielfoster 4y ago
Just don’t tax it.
- Proven 4y ago
bediger4000 4y ago
I don't think this article motivates taxing Cloud Computing very well: > The tech giants who built these hyper-clouds have massive advantages in building AI products and services that will continue to displace workers, who rely on low or predictable skills in both blue and white-collar industries. Okay.... That seems like an emotional appeal, which on the face of it, is OK, but it doesn't stand up to any further thought. Should we consider whether a given product or innovation or improvement "displaces workers"? I mean, self-checkout and ATMs explicitly exist to displace workers. Arguing to not displace workers seems like an argument against changing anything. The politico mini-interview linked to by this article has Cuban suggesting that robots that replace workers should contribute to Social Security, not taxing some amorphous concept like "cloud computing". Further, given that Mark Cuban is a billionaire, one cannot just take his suggestion at face value. What does Cuban have going, what investments or trove of "intellectual property" does he have that are either negatively impacted by "cloud computing" or that would be positively impacted by robots paying into Social Security, or a per-server head tax?
throwoutway 4y ago
1) they’re already taxed 2) companies building on top pay tax 3) if you’re an end customer youre paying a tax 4) a billionaire is floating this idea. Sounds like redirection to me
- gumby 4y ago
  For points 1-3 I suggest reading Colbert and, separately, reflecting on the history of excise taxes in the pre civil war era.

9 points by ceohockey60 4y ago

Interesting article but he wants to tax the “profit of compute, network, etc…” but how you can legally define the profits generate from network data or computing power? You can already tax the power consumption, or the company profits, but I see hard to find what he describes in the article. And also lots of super computer are made by states/research centers/universities and companies already pay to use the computing capability.

rnk 4y ago
The real thing they're trying to tax is some part of the massive impact that AI and other automation will have on the economy and lives of people who will lose jobs. It's just going to be harder and harder to have a decent lifestyle in the US if you aren't fortunate to have great education in a important area that isn't automated. If I had a factory that used to employ a thousand people to make widgets and it gets automated and now makes the same with only 50 people, probably the cost of production is lower, but 950 people lost their jobs. In my West Coast city we already have tons of people that can't find a job (some lost through automation?) where they can afford an apartment and so they live in their cars and later they live on the street. This is going to happen to increasing parts of the population in the US.

tyingq 4y ago

I suppose it would create a new market for clouds run by non-US entities.

verdverm 4y ago
Maybe, but if they run servers in the US, and you will need servers in the US, then you would still have to comply There are already many non-US data centers to choose from

huitzitziltzin 4y ago

A great example of why it does not make sense to take random policy thoughts from billionaires particularly seriously. This idea seems at best unworkable.

missedthecue 4y ago

In Europe you pay VAT on servers

late2part 4y ago
In the USA you pay sales or use tax on servers.
- beepbeepcabbage 4y ago
  And on the electricity, the real-estate, the income, the employee payroll... Unless you're a hyperscaler then you just don't. I wonder how mark thinks they won't just dodge this one as well

beepbeepcabbage 4y ago

No mark we don't need digital realestate taxes we need the hyperscalers to pay their regular ass taxes they're supposed to be paying and enforce sustainability regulations.

danielfoster 4y ago

Just don’t tax it.

Proven 4y ago

bediger4000 4y ago

I don't think this article motivates taxing Cloud Computing very well: > The tech giants who built these hyper-clouds have massive advantages in building AI products and services that will continue to displace workers, who rely on low or predictable skills in both blue and white-collar industries. Okay.... That seems like an emotional appeal, which on the face of it, is OK, but it doesn't stand up to any further thought. Should we consider whether a given product or innovation or improvement "displaces workers"? I mean, self-checkout and ATMs explicitly exist to displace workers. Arguing to not displace workers seems like an argument against changing anything. The politico mini-interview linked to by this article has Cuban suggesting that robots that replace workers should contribute to Social Security, not taxing some amorphous concept like "cloud computing". Further, given that Mark Cuban is a billionaire, one cannot just take his suggestion at face value. What does Cuban have going, what investments or trove of "intellectual property" does he have that are either negatively impacted by "cloud computing" or that would be positively impacted by robots paying into Social Security, or a per-server head tax?

throwoutway 4y ago

1) they’re already taxed 2) companies building on top pay tax 3) if you’re an end customer youre paying a tax 4) a billionaire is floating this idea. Sounds like redirection to me

gumby 4y ago
For points 1-3 I suggest reading Colbert and, separately, reflecting on the history of excise taxes in the pre civil war era.