5 ms·

This will get flagged to death. But in the meantime, surveys have shown that the right and left have shifted further from the center over the last 20 years. The

This will get flagged to death. But in the meantime, surveys have shown that the right and left have shifted further from the center over the last 20 years. The left has had a much more dramatic swing than the right. I think the left could easily adopt a few of the issues that the right is currently championing and take full control of the government.

michaelmrose 4y ago
On the morning after the insurrection around 45% of Republicans were supportive of the violent attempt to overthrow our government. We have courts and politicians not only wanting to kill abortion rights in states they control but prevent people from crossing state lines to get abortions and removing opposing exceptions for rape or even the life of the mother. Secession is a fairly mainstream position among republicans, held by 2/3 of southern republicans. 4 in 10 support violence to put the other side down or achieve independence. A conservative court has found that there is no right to privacy in the constitution and affirmed that stare decisis is dead while opining that the court went too far not only in affirming abortion rights but in protecting gay and even interracial marriage laws, and even gay sex. This means that basically any prior case that was decided in a way that deviates from present conservative thinking is on the menu. Before it was merely abhorrent that a minority among the supreme court believes Texas has a right to criminalize gay sex in Lawrence v Texas. Now they can if they choose merely redo that one. So that's whats going on with the red team now please do explicate how the left has undergone a more radical swing. I don't see an idea more radical than tax the rich and give everyone health care with more than single digit support.
- happytoexplain 4y ago
  You're right, but taken literally, the parent is describing a relative measure (the size of a swing), and one could make an argument that, on a ten point extremity scale, Republicans have swung from 7 to 9 and Democrats have swung from 2 to 6 (to choose arbitrary numbers).
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    It's challenging to assign numbers to quantities that aren't numeric in nature and everyone could pick different weights and methods but lets be realistic. If you compare a Democrat from 40 years ago to one today you would see a 20% uptick in support for gay rights and a substantial uptick in the desire to spend tax money on healthcare, and a smaller uptick in support to raise taxes to support the former. If you compare a republican from the same era you would find 10% of them now want a white supremacist christian ethnostate and 40% of them are supportive of the idea of killing their wrong thinking neighbors in order to live in Republican Town and even more would gladly part ways with the US of A if they could do it at the ballot box. It may be challenging to assign weights to these dissimilar changes in positions but one of them is pretty clearly more extreme than the other.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      > 40% of them are supportive of the idea of killing their wrong thinking neighbors in order to live in Republican Town This sounds completely insane. Can you point to a source that actually backs this up?
      - michaelmrose 4y ago
        https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/966498544/a-scary-survey-finding-4-in-10-republicans-say-political-violence-may-be-necessa https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/966498544/a-scary-survey-find... "39% of Republicans, agreed that "if elected leaders will not protect America, the people must do it themselves, even if it requires violent actions."" "two out of three Republicans saying President Biden was not legitimately elected" https://www.splcenter.org/news/2022/06/01/poll-finds-support-great-replacement-hard-right-ideas https://www.splcenter.org/news/2022/06/01/poll-finds-support... "70% of Republicans believe in the great replacement theory" https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-24/a-quarter-of-republicans-believe-central-views-of-qanon-conspiracy-movement https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-24/a-q... "A Quarter of Republicans Believe Central Views of QAnon Conspiracy Movement" Both sides have a substantial portion that believes that there could be a need for violence. Unfortunately the Republican side believes this because they think liberals are replacing them with brown people, qanon, and election lies. Meanwhile liberals like myself believe it because we have relatives who are talking about cleaning their guns to make ready to kill Democrats. Personally I have directly followed alt-right communication on publicly available social media platforms including gab and parler and the videos they share. It's not really a secret that the crazies want to whack us.
- throwoutway 4y ago
  You put too much stock in polls. The average (or even intelligent) person does not have time for polls. Trusting these numbers is to believe in FUD.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    There is no reason to accept your casual dismissal of polling or specific polls without proof or even argument of any sort based on the fact that you said so. You put too much stock in your gut. So much so that you are able to casually dismiss actual facts because they don't agree with your gut.
    - salawat 4y ago
      They are right. No one has time for polls, and of those who do, I question that their willingness to answer reflects on them being representative. Tell me, have you been polled? If so, have you given feedback beyond a yes or no to a misleadingly framed question?
      - michaelmrose 4y ago
        You like the prior poster still haven't provided any evidence for the wholesale rejection of polling as meaningful so I feel no need to disprove arguments you have declined to provide. Asking if I have gotten a poll is a non sequitur. It's not a meaningful question so I see no reason to answer. The plural of anecdote isn't data.
        salawat 4y ago
        You're the one sealioning. My question was simple. Have you been polled? Have you not? I am tired of people hiding behind pollsters imagined legitimacy, particularly when we have the technology today to literally ask everyone what they think. And yet... Never do I seem to run into anyone who responded to one of these polls. Have you? Easy answer. Yes or no.
        4y ago

michaelmrose 4y ago

On the morning after the insurrection around 45% of Republicans were supportive of the violent attempt to overthrow our government. We have courts and politicians not only wanting to kill abortion rights in states they control but prevent people from crossing state lines to get abortions and removing opposing exceptions for rape or even the life of the mother. Secession is a fairly mainstream position among republicans, held by 2/3 of southern republicans. 4 in 10 support violence to put the other side down or achieve independence. A conservative court has found that there is no right to privacy in the constitution and affirmed that stare decisis is dead while opining that the court went too far not only in affirming abortion rights but in protecting gay and even interracial marriage laws, and even gay sex. This means that basically any prior case that was decided in a way that deviates from present conservative thinking is on the menu. Before it was merely abhorrent that a minority among the supreme court believes Texas has a right to criminalize gay sex in Lawrence v Texas. Now they can if they choose merely redo that one. So that's whats going on with the red team now please do explicate how the left has undergone a more radical swing. I don't see an idea more radical than tax the rich and give everyone health care with more than single digit support.

happytoexplain 4y ago
You're right, but taken literally, the parent is describing a relative measure (the size of a swing), and one could make an argument that, on a ten point extremity scale, Republicans have swung from 7 to 9 and Democrats have swung from 2 to 6 (to choose arbitrary numbers).
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  It's challenging to assign numbers to quantities that aren't numeric in nature and everyone could pick different weights and methods but lets be realistic. If you compare a Democrat from 40 years ago to one today you would see a 20% uptick in support for gay rights and a substantial uptick in the desire to spend tax money on healthcare, and a smaller uptick in support to raise taxes to support the former. If you compare a republican from the same era you would find 10% of them now want a white supremacist christian ethnostate and 40% of them are supportive of the idea of killing their wrong thinking neighbors in order to live in Republican Town and even more would gladly part ways with the US of A if they could do it at the ballot box. It may be challenging to assign weights to these dissimilar changes in positions but one of them is pretty clearly more extreme than the other.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > 40% of them are supportive of the idea of killing their wrong thinking neighbors in order to live in Republican Town This sounds completely insane. Can you point to a source that actually backs this up?
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/966498544/a-scary-survey-finding-4-in-10-republicans-say-political-violence-may-be-necessa https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/966498544/a-scary-survey-find... "39% of Republicans, agreed that "if elected leaders will not protect America, the people must do it themselves, even if it requires violent actions."" "two out of three Republicans saying President Biden was not legitimately elected" https://www.splcenter.org/news/2022/06/01/poll-finds-support-great-replacement-hard-right-ideas https://www.splcenter.org/news/2022/06/01/poll-finds-support... "70% of Republicans believe in the great replacement theory" https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-24/a-quarter-of-republicans-believe-central-views-of-qanon-conspiracy-movement https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-02-24/a-q... "A Quarter of Republicans Believe Central Views of QAnon Conspiracy Movement" Both sides have a substantial portion that believes that there could be a need for violence. Unfortunately the Republican side believes this because they think liberals are replacing them with brown people, qanon, and election lies. Meanwhile liberals like myself believe it because we have relatives who are talking about cleaning their guns to make ready to kill Democrats. Personally I have directly followed alt-right communication on publicly available social media platforms including gab and parler and the videos they share. It's not really a secret that the crazies want to whack us.
throwoutway 4y ago
You put too much stock in polls. The average (or even intelligent) person does not have time for polls. Trusting these numbers is to believe in FUD.
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  There is no reason to accept your casual dismissal of polling or specific polls without proof or even argument of any sort based on the fact that you said so. You put too much stock in your gut. So much so that you are able to casually dismiss actual facts because they don't agree with your gut.
  - salawat 4y ago
    They are right. No one has time for polls, and of those who do, I question that their willingness to answer reflects on them being representative. Tell me, have you been polled? If so, have you given feedback beyond a yes or no to a misleadingly framed question?
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      You like the prior poster still haven't provided any evidence for the wholesale rejection of polling as meaningful so I feel no need to disprove arguments you have declined to provide. Asking if I have gotten a poll is a non sequitur. It's not a meaningful question so I see no reason to answer. The plural of anecdote isn't data.
      - salawat 4y ago
        You're the one sealioning. My question was simple. Have you been polled? Have you not? I am tired of people hiding behind pollsters imagined legitimacy, particularly when we have the technology today to literally ask everyone what they think. And yet... Never do I seem to run into anyone who responded to one of these polls. Have you? Easy answer. Yes or no.
        4y ago