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> We have a heating problem or an industry problem, but not an electricity problem — at least not generally throughout the country. I don't even get that logic

by cm2187 4y ago

> We have a heating problem or an industry problem, but not an electricity problem — at least not generally throughout the country. I don't even get that logic. The easy substitution for gas heating is electric heating (all you need is to plug a cheap portable electric heater in a power socket). [edit] also it seems 12% of the german electricity is generated with gas. So more nuclear should directly translate in more gas available to some other use, shouldn't it?

spfzero 4y ago
I also read that with incredulity "but not an electricity problem". Germany generates lots of electricity from coal and gas, emitting lots of carbon dioxide. That's a problem.
- dirkt 4y ago
  Germany can get coal from somewhere else. Germany cannot get gas from somewhere else, at least not in sufficient quantities. In 2021, gas was used for 17% of the generated electricity [1]. This percentage is artificially high, since CO2 offsets for gas compared to other energy resources made it very attractive. Adjusting that down, the remaining 10% or so can easily be replaced by other sources, or imported. OTOH, about 50% of German households are heated with gas. You cannot replace all 200 million of those installations with electric heating (even if we wanted to, electric heating wastes the most energy). The industry is also highly dependent on natural gas, e.g. to produce glass (including solar panels), or as a raw material, e.g. to produce fertilizer, or other chemicals. That cannot be replaced by electricity. Should those industries not be able to continue working because of a gas shortage, this will have a ripple effect for the whole German economy. Yet the internet echo chamber mob continues to claim that Germany has an electricity problem, and could just instantly turn off the Russian gas if they'd just switch to nuclear... and you have to tell every single one of the to do some research. The internet has truly become an ugly place. [1] https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/03/PD22_116_43312.html https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/03...
  - fragmede 4y ago
    > You cannot replace all 200 million of those installations with electric heating Why not? That seems entirely tractable to me, given 4 months and a large enough budget. It’s undesirable for other reasons, sure, but if it’s between literally freezing to death and surviving, I know which one I’d choose.
mvgcf 4y ago
Gas is used as a preliminary product in chemical processes. Thus the industry needs gas, not electrical heating.
- CRConrad 4y ago
  Way not to understand the comment you replied to: Yes, the industry needs gas, not electrical heating. And at the moment, most gas in Germany is used for industrial purposes; some, to heat homes; and some, to generate electricity. Therefore any gas freed up, by not being used to generate electricity or heat homes, can be used for those industrial purposes in stead. So using nuclear power in stead of gas to generate electricity, and electricity in stead of gas to heat homes, frees up some gas for industrial use. Sheesh.

by cm2187 4y ago

spfzero 4y ago

I also read that with incredulity "but not an electricity problem". Germany generates lots of electricity from coal and gas, emitting lots of carbon dioxide. That's a problem.

dirkt 4y ago
Germany can get coal from somewhere else. Germany cannot get gas from somewhere else, at least not in sufficient quantities. In 2021, gas was used for 17% of the generated electricity [1]. This percentage is artificially high, since CO2 offsets for gas compared to other energy resources made it very attractive. Adjusting that down, the remaining 10% or so can easily be replaced by other sources, or imported. OTOH, about 50% of German households are heated with gas. You cannot replace all 200 million of those installations with electric heating (even if we wanted to, electric heating wastes the most energy). The industry is also highly dependent on natural gas, e.g. to produce glass (including solar panels), or as a raw material, e.g. to produce fertilizer, or other chemicals. That cannot be replaced by electricity. Should those industries not be able to continue working because of a gas shortage, this will have a ripple effect for the whole German economy. Yet the internet echo chamber mob continues to claim that Germany has an electricity problem, and could just instantly turn off the Russian gas if they'd just switch to nuclear... and you have to tell every single one of the to do some research. The internet has truly become an ugly place. [1] https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/03/PD22_116_43312.html https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2022/03...
- fragmede 4y ago
  > You cannot replace all 200 million of those installations with electric heating Why not? That seems entirely tractable to me, given 4 months and a large enough budget. It’s undesirable for other reasons, sure, but if it’s between literally freezing to death and surviving, I know which one I’d choose.

mvgcf 4y ago

Gas is used as a preliminary product in chemical processes. Thus the industry needs gas, not electrical heating.

CRConrad 4y ago
Way not to understand the comment you replied to: Yes, the industry needs gas, not electrical heating. And at the moment, most gas in Germany is used for industrial purposes; some, to heat homes; and some, to generate electricity. Therefore any gas freed up, by not being used to generate electricity or heat homes, can be used for those industrial purposes in stead. So using nuclear power in stead of gas to generate electricity, and electricity in stead of gas to heat homes, frees up some gas for industrial use. Sheesh.