6 ms·

In order to find "new music" the listeners themselves have to put in some effort, be curious and open to the experience. It helps if there is a culture around i

by dav_Oz 4y ago

In order to find "new music" the listeners themselves have to put in some effort, be curious and open to the experience. It helps if there is a culture around it, not around "genres" but around discovering music (be it old or new) in general. When I was a kid I always enjoyed walking into my uncle's living room being awestruck by the enormous hi-fi sound and his massive collections of LPs and later CDs. He, at times, offered me to play what I like. Because I had no real clue about music back then, I just picked the ones with "interesting" cover art. I vividly remember picking Bauhaus' The Sky's Gone Out or King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King, totally alien music for me but quite the listening experience. This kind of ceremonial setting and the work and care around it, is missing in the days of immediate availability under our impulsive fingertips and with it the disposition to take a good listen with a clear intention, with a beginning and an end. It seems that we are more or less offered to be drowned in music streams making it hard to discern, unable to recover with fresh/curious ears without taking breaks and the possibility to listen more sparingly.

nunez 4y ago
Something like this happened to me when I was at debate camp in high school. I roomed with a super-chill guy who had an enormous (at the time) volume of CDs with him. I told him I was starting to listen to rock music more seriously (something I hid for a long time; I'm Black and Latino and got made fun of by people when I told them I listened to Blink and Taking Back Sunday). When I told him I was listening to KROQ, he said "No. Here's a Bob Dylan CD. Listen to this; give it back to me whenever." Loved it. He then gave me White Light/White Heat by The Velvet Underground, which is what basically _really_ started me on punk, which I still listen to a ton of today (less Blink; more SNFU, Bad Cop/Bad Cop, and the like) and has kind-of formed a part of my identity (or at least the part that is always ALWAYS seeking new music and doesn't fixate on the music of my college years). Sharing music is a huge part of discovery.
fortran77 4y ago
> In order to find "new music" the listeners themselves have to put in some effort This is a very good point. I listen to a lot of great "new" music, but I do that by listening to oddball radio stations (like KCSM San Mateo), going to music festivals (just got back from the Sicily Jazz Festival in Italy), and "new music" events (like the Cabrillo Festival of Contemporary Music https://cabrillomusic.org/ https://cabrillomusic.org/ ), and I play the piano with amateur groups and in amateur recitals. It takes a lot of work, but all I hear is new music, or fresh takes on old music. But sadly, the audience for this is either people like me (men 55+ and some women) and kids who are music majors. There's little in the middle. I think the average kid who simply followed pop and rock back in the 70s knew more about "music" than the kid today to whom it's just a branding, or a backdrop for a TikTok. They don't listen and pay attention. Pop culture doesn't resolve around music anymore. There's too many other things (games, social media) to worry about.
- cool_dude85 4y ago
  No offense, but the "new music" you're talking about, that primarily appeals to men aged 55+, is new jazz and classical music? Kids these days don't pay enough attention to the hip new composers? Come on.
  - fortran77 4y ago
    Nobody would call modern art music "classical music." When I was high school/college age, I certainly paid attention to the composers who were writing for film, or synthesizers, etc. I just don't think enough kids today are positioned to be able to appreciate it. The artists performing this aren't all old men, for the most part they're a diverse group of young people.
    - bigmealbigmeal 4y ago
      From my perspective, you really are stuck in a bubble of old music, whether or not those takes are "new". Modern art music is old music. Jazz, even the most forward-thinking of forms, is old music. I don't think you're able to draw the conclusion that young people aren't interested in music from the concerts you attend, because you are simply listening to old music. If you want to see hordes of young people who are genuinely interested in music (new music), you'll find them within the sprawling umbrella of club music. Not your local top 40 pop club, but the underground places. Young people who are interested in music are focused on novel atmospheres/noises coupled with danceable rhythms. They're not interested in harmony, chord progressions, or sounds created near-exclusively by acoustic or electroacoustic instruments. That's the purview of old music, and that's why you'll only find it in music schools (which are fantastically archaic) + old people. On that note, I'm willing to accept the hypothesis that the "average" young person today is less interested in music than in the past. It's probably true. But your evidence is... well, I think in a bit of a bubble.
- ska 4y ago
  Counter to this, I know some teenagers who are obsessed with music in the way (time wise) mainly only teenagers can be. Currently enjoying a summer off doing 10+ hour days focused on that, collaborations with other people online, everything digital or digitized. You know what they won’t be doing? Any of the venues and sources you describe. Not a value judgment, by the way, just an observation and a curiosity of what you are really seeing is a silo effect where you just don’t see what they are into and vice versa.
bamboozled 4y ago
Actually why I don't see AI generated music a thing. What I think we do as humans participating in culture is "select" music, I'm not sure music is every truly created or composed but stumbled upon and then selected. It's selected at a rate which we can manage. A large part of the fun comes from sharing music with others. When everything becomes personalized, we start to lose this. If I had library of never ending new great AI generated music, what would happen? I guess I'd just keep browsing forever and never really know what I like. Arguably this is already happening. I've been a musician from a young age, and I now actually find it difficult to know what to listen to. Before I had steaming services, it was a lot easier a lot less option stress.
octokatt 4y ago
> This kind of ceremonial setting and the work and care around it, is missing in the days of immediate availability... I'm riffing off of this, and saying it's about the same as trying to find a new opinion by reading Facebook. If the main way you're trying to find new music is algorithmically, you're only going to find fairly similar kinds of music. This differs hugely from the music festival, or even being able to go into a music shop and ask a human for something interesting and new. That's without talking about how garage bands and live music have mostly died a sad death. As well, I'd say listening to complex music, or even a different genre of music, takes focus and patience. In gaining the algorithm-driven, attention-seeking internet, we've lost a lot of that focus and patience.
sogen 4y ago
Yes, it involved more effort, and did not have competition like all things the the internet offers.
lc9er 4y ago
I'd guess like most people, my greatest period of music discovery was in my teens and 20's. Listening to music with friends, we'd share new discoveries, hoping to win over a new fan. Music stores were great, too. Putting on the gross headphones at Tower Records and sampling the latest releases, let me find new bands without risking my limited teen cash supply. Even better, I could go across the street from Tower and pick the brains of the people at the punk/metal shop, or convince them to play something that Tower would never stock. The people there always had a better understanding of your tastes, far better than a genre listing. The most fruitful source of new music was going out to see shows. Going to a show to see one or two bands at any given show, there was a good chance I'd come away a fan of one of the openers.
koala_man 4y ago
It's seems like what you're describing would help you find music that's new to you, not necessarily music that has been produced recently like in the article. I imagine this is especially true with today's data driven recommendation engines. When I discover new music it often turns out to be made in 2010 rather than 2022, and tbh it doesn't matter to me since I haven't heard it before either way.
adrr 4y ago
Music discovery has been replaced by playlists that you can subscribe too. They are the new radio and now actually drive radio plays.

by dav_Oz 4y ago

nunez 4y ago

Something like this happened to me when I was at debate camp in high school. I roomed with a super-chill guy who had an enormous (at the time) volume of CDs with him. I told him I was starting to listen to rock music more seriously (something I hid for a long time; I'm Black and Latino and got made fun of by people when I told them I listened to Blink and Taking Back Sunday). When I told him I was listening to KROQ, he said "No. Here's a Bob Dylan CD. Listen to this; give it back to me whenever." Loved it. He then gave me White Light/White Heat by The Velvet Underground, which is what basically _really_ started me on punk, which I still listen to a ton of today (less Blink; more SNFU, Bad Cop/Bad Cop, and the like) and has kind-of formed a part of my identity (or at least the part that is always ALWAYS seeking new music and doesn't fixate on the music of my college years). Sharing music is a huge part of discovery.

fortran77 4y ago

> In order to find "new music" the listeners themselves have to put in some effort This is a very good point. I listen to a lot of great "new" music, but I do that by listening to oddball radio stations (like KCSM San Mateo), going to music festivals (just got back from the Sicily Jazz Festival in Italy), and "new music" events (like the Cabrillo Festival of Contemporary Music https://cabrillomusic.org/ https://cabrillomusic.org/ ), and I play the piano with amateur groups and in amateur recitals. It takes a lot of work, but all I hear is new music, or fresh takes on old music. But sadly, the audience for this is either people like me (men 55+ and some women) and kids who are music majors. There's little in the middle. I think the average kid who simply followed pop and rock back in the 70s knew more about "music" than the kid today to whom it's just a branding, or a backdrop for a TikTok. They don't listen and pay attention. Pop culture doesn't resolve around music anymore. There's too many other things (games, social media) to worry about.

cool_dude85 4y ago
No offense, but the "new music" you're talking about, that primarily appeals to men aged 55+, is new jazz and classical music? Kids these days don't pay enough attention to the hip new composers? Come on.
- fortran77 4y ago
  Nobody would call modern art music "classical music." When I was high school/college age, I certainly paid attention to the composers who were writing for film, or synthesizers, etc. I just don't think enough kids today are positioned to be able to appreciate it. The artists performing this aren't all old men, for the most part they're a diverse group of young people.
  - bigmealbigmeal 4y ago
    From my perspective, you really are stuck in a bubble of old music, whether or not those takes are "new". Modern art music is old music. Jazz, even the most forward-thinking of forms, is old music. I don't think you're able to draw the conclusion that young people aren't interested in music from the concerts you attend, because you are simply listening to old music. If you want to see hordes of young people who are genuinely interested in music (new music), you'll find them within the sprawling umbrella of club music. Not your local top 40 pop club, but the underground places. Young people who are interested in music are focused on novel atmospheres/noises coupled with danceable rhythms. They're not interested in harmony, chord progressions, or sounds created near-exclusively by acoustic or electroacoustic instruments. That's the purview of old music, and that's why you'll only find it in music schools (which are fantastically archaic) + old people. On that note, I'm willing to accept the hypothesis that the "average" young person today is less interested in music than in the past. It's probably true. But your evidence is... well, I think in a bit of a bubble.
ska 4y ago
Counter to this, I know some teenagers who are obsessed with music in the way (time wise) mainly only teenagers can be. Currently enjoying a summer off doing 10+ hour days focused on that, collaborations with other people online, everything digital or digitized. You know what they won’t be doing? Any of the venues and sources you describe. Not a value judgment, by the way, just an observation and a curiosity of what you are really seeing is a silo effect where you just don’t see what they are into and vice versa.

bamboozled 4y ago

Actually why I don't see AI generated music a thing. What I think we do as humans participating in culture is "select" music, I'm not sure music is every truly created or composed but stumbled upon and then selected. It's selected at a rate which we can manage. A large part of the fun comes from sharing music with others. When everything becomes personalized, we start to lose this. If I had library of never ending new great AI generated music, what would happen? I guess I'd just keep browsing forever and never really know what I like. Arguably this is already happening. I've been a musician from a young age, and I now actually find it difficult to know what to listen to. Before I had steaming services, it was a lot easier a lot less option stress.

octokatt 4y ago

> This kind of ceremonial setting and the work and care around it, is missing in the days of immediate availability... I'm riffing off of this, and saying it's about the same as trying to find a new opinion by reading Facebook. If the main way you're trying to find new music is algorithmically, you're only going to find fairly similar kinds of music. This differs hugely from the music festival, or even being able to go into a music shop and ask a human for something interesting and new. That's without talking about how garage bands and live music have mostly died a sad death. As well, I'd say listening to complex music, or even a different genre of music, takes focus and patience. In gaining the algorithm-driven, attention-seeking internet, we've lost a lot of that focus and patience.

sogen 4y ago

Yes, it involved more effort, and did not have competition like all things the the internet offers.

lc9er 4y ago

I'd guess like most people, my greatest period of music discovery was in my teens and 20's. Listening to music with friends, we'd share new discoveries, hoping to win over a new fan. Music stores were great, too. Putting on the gross headphones at Tower Records and sampling the latest releases, let me find new bands without risking my limited teen cash supply. Even better, I could go across the street from Tower and pick the brains of the people at the punk/metal shop, or convince them to play something that Tower would never stock. The people there always had a better understanding of your tastes, far better than a genre listing. The most fruitful source of new music was going out to see shows. Going to a show to see one or two bands at any given show, there was a good chance I'd come away a fan of one of the openers.

koala_man 4y ago

It's seems like what you're describing would help you find music that's new to you, not necessarily music that has been produced recently like in the article. I imagine this is especially true with today's data driven recommendation engines. When I discover new music it often turns out to be made in 2010 rather than 2022, and tbh it doesn't matter to me since I haven't heard it before either way.

adrr 4y ago

Music discovery has been replaced by playlists that you can subscribe too. They are the new radio and now actually drive radio plays.