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> My son, who is now 17, spends - I would imagine, he doesn't know because he's too frightened to switch on Screen Time - maybe 10-14 hours a day glued to his p

> My son, who is now 17, spends - I would imagine, he doesn't know because he's too frightened to switch on Screen Time - maybe 10-14 hours a day glued to his phone. He's now at an age where I have no agency over him - he's an adult in 6 months and he's got to figure out his own way - but it worries me. I have to ask, do you live in the suburbs? I was in a similar place as your son growing up, I had an extreme screen addiction (although some of it was productive). There was nothing to do or see within several miles of home and I was dependent on my parents for transportation, which added enough friction that I didn't really even know where to begin when it came to making friends or planning outings beyond school. It was just significantly easier to stay at home playing video games or surfing online all the time, and that habit spilled over into anything I did outside the house as well. That all changed when I moved somewhere walkable with good transit/bike infrastructure.

gernb 4y ago
I know things are different now but I grew up in the suburbs and yet went all kinds of places. Got my driver's license at 16. Parents let me borrow one car or another all the time. Even before that though, rode bikes all over. This, even though I was a nerd making programs on home computers. We didn't have the internet or even BBSes though. We did have video games.
dazc 4y ago
I was just thinking the same. I live 10 minutes away from the coast and have just enjoyed a few hours sat by the beach where most people were sunbathing, paddle boarding, taking a dip, etc. I didn't notice anyone gazing at their smartphone. As a kid I lived inland and a casual trip to the beach just wasn't an option. I look back and remember a lot of boring Sundays where the option of staring at a phone screen all day would have been a luxury.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  Beach trips these days are normally for the gram not for the day at the beach. https://fun107.com/dads-embarrassing-their-daughters-in-the-most-epic-way-video/ https://fun107.com/dads-embarrassing-their-daughters-in-the-...
- dmje 4y ago
  I’ve literally just now got back from having a dip in the sea, and was laughing to myself at the guy standing in the surf looking at his phone. Beautiful evening, stunning weather, and his dog standing there looking bored waiting for him to throw his ball, and he’s on his phone… My experience is very different to yours - I’d say as I walked across the beach yesterday when I was really paying attention, maybe 20-30% of the people I passed were looking at a screen.
jader201 4y ago
Don’t most parents of children live outside of cities? Obviously there are many families that live in cities, but cities seem to mostly draw younger professionals that don’t (yet) have children, and often once these people start having families, they relocate outside of the city (if they’re able to).
- actionablefiber 4y ago
  Growing up in car-dependent suburbs is not conducive to a healthy, balanced, independent childhood. You’re right that many parents raise their kids in car-dependent suburbs, at least in North America, which just means that this is a very large problem affecting a lot of people.
  - MisterMower 4y ago
    As opposed to the concrete jungles and public transit terminals typical of your larger US cities?
    - actionablefiber 4y ago
      No, not as opposed to them. The U.S. has a radically bimodal development pattern with very few developments that lie in between "dense cramped highrises" and "suburban wastelands of cars, asphalt, strip malls and large private homes with large lawns." This development pattern, which is exceedingly rare elsewhere in the world, excludes the kind of developments that are most needed, which are multifamily housing developments that offer decent private space to individuals while being dense and connected enough to offer public amenities and transit.
dmje 4y ago
By the sea, in a small town in Cornwall. Loads to do, and he does a lot of it - he surfs, rides his bike, climbs, hangs with his mates. He’s an excellent fellow, and I hope nothing I’ve said suggests otherwise. When he’s not on his phone, he’s an incredibly balanced chap. Even when he is on his phone, he’s brilliant - as I said, he looks at some seriously interesting stuff, much of it about space and rockets and physics, as this is the stuff that sparks him. But my wider worry is still there - not just for him, but for all of us. A world seen through a 5” screen is just a poor facsimile. It’s not the world, full of the gnarly stuff - and the beautiful stuff - that goes on out here. Boredom is another thing - actually (as we hopefully all know by now..), boredom and downtime is useful. It lets the brain make sense of the world, it’s where the ideas happen. If your “downtime” is a constant buzz of notifications, or dopamine hits, what happens to inspiration, or those “tada” moments?
- jstarfish 4y ago
  Interesting point. I find my only "boredom" moments occur as I'm getting out of bed or as I'm trying to sleep. This might explain why I find myself chronically uninspired...and unproductive.
timmytokyo 4y ago
As a 50-something man who grew up in a pretty boring suburb, I rarely found myself lacking for things to do. I spent most of my time hanging out with friends, even if it was at the local arcade, strip mall or a friend's house. We'd ride our bicycles all over the city, explore the local creeks and hillsides, or play video games together (Atari, Intellivision, etc.). Eventually a few of us got home computers (Apple II or Commodore) and spent a huge amount of time playing games or programming, but there was always a desire to get together and do things outside. (The suburban experiences of the kids on E.T. reminds me a lot of my own childhood, minus the alien.) Most of us had chores and/or jobs. I had a paper route from age 12 to age 14. When I was at home, my parents were always kicking me out of the house to go do things outside or with friends. Most kids in my neighborhood were what you would classify today as "free range". That seemed to be the norm in those days. Today I look at kids with their heads buried in smart phones and feel a real sense of pity.
- stevenicr 4y ago
  I had similar experiences around a similar time frame. I had no idea how lucky I was. As an adult I moved to another city - what I found after moving is that there are no sidewalks, lots of hills, and virtually no where is safe to bike. (sadly this is still pretty much the case 20 years later around here, although they have added some 'bike lanes' and laws.. you couldn't pay me to bike around here. Arcades have closed, no skateboarding and similar trespass rules are common now to deter hanging out at strip malls and such. I keep recalling the news story some years back where a mom was arrested for allowing her kids to go to the park without a parent (maybe it was chicago or similar?) Friend's houses have become a worry about all the stories you see in the news / social feeds about drugging / raping / guns / unfiltered porn / hidden cams etc.. I too have pity for today's youth with heads in phones - however seeing what some of the other hoodlums are doing with idle hands these days, on top of the rampant dangers outside the homes, I'm glad there are all these screen options today.
- actionablefiber 4y ago
  A few major things have changed in the intervening time that have worsened the problem. First, the suburbs have expanded, greatly. This means they're farther out in the periphery on average, there are far more highways, roads, and parking structures needed to support them (with far more lanes and traffic), and it's consequently more difficult and dangerous to go places on your own, especially without a car, in any place that is in or connected to suburban developments. For reference, when I was going to elementary school in the late 2000s, my school was half a mile away on the other side of a five lane highway that had no sidewalk on the other side. It wasn't until later that a pedestrian/bike accessible trail was put in to allow access to getting downtown and even then it would still take 30-40 minutes walking or 10-15 minutes cycling and it sucked the whole time. And this was a less exurban development than many of the ones that have sprung up in the last decade. Secondly, perhaps in part as a reasonable reaction to the first and in part as an unreasonable reaction to fearmongering, parents are unwilling to let their kids venture out on their own without supervision, and even police each other, by calling the actual police on parents who let their kids travel alone. Thirdly, tech has just gotten better, in ways that make it higher quality and in ways that make it addictive. Browsing the internet and playing vidya is a better value proposition these days in many suburbs than going outside to navigate asphalt and private lawns as far as the eye can see.

gernb 4y ago

I know things are different now but I grew up in the suburbs and yet went all kinds of places. Got my driver's license at 16. Parents let me borrow one car or another all the time. Even before that though, rode bikes all over. This, even though I was a nerd making programs on home computers. We didn't have the internet or even BBSes though. We did have video games.

dazc 4y ago

I was just thinking the same. I live 10 minutes away from the coast and have just enjoyed a few hours sat by the beach where most people were sunbathing, paddle boarding, taking a dip, etc. I didn't notice anyone gazing at their smartphone. As a kid I lived inland and a casual trip to the beach just wasn't an option. I look back and remember a lot of boring Sundays where the option of staring at a phone screen all day would have been a luxury.

shapefrog 4y ago
Beach trips these days are normally for the gram not for the day at the beach. https://fun107.com/dads-embarrassing-their-daughters-in-the-most-epic-way-video/ https://fun107.com/dads-embarrassing-their-daughters-in-the-...
dmje 4y ago
I’ve literally just now got back from having a dip in the sea, and was laughing to myself at the guy standing in the surf looking at his phone. Beautiful evening, stunning weather, and his dog standing there looking bored waiting for him to throw his ball, and he’s on his phone… My experience is very different to yours - I’d say as I walked across the beach yesterday when I was really paying attention, maybe 20-30% of the people I passed were looking at a screen.

jader201 4y ago

Don’t most parents of children live outside of cities? Obviously there are many families that live in cities, but cities seem to mostly draw younger professionals that don’t (yet) have children, and often once these people start having families, they relocate outside of the city (if they’re able to).

actionablefiber 4y ago
Growing up in car-dependent suburbs is not conducive to a healthy, balanced, independent childhood. You’re right that many parents raise their kids in car-dependent suburbs, at least in North America, which just means that this is a very large problem affecting a lot of people.
- MisterMower 4y ago
  As opposed to the concrete jungles and public transit terminals typical of your larger US cities?
  - actionablefiber 4y ago
    No, not as opposed to them. The U.S. has a radically bimodal development pattern with very few developments that lie in between "dense cramped highrises" and "suburban wastelands of cars, asphalt, strip malls and large private homes with large lawns." This development pattern, which is exceedingly rare elsewhere in the world, excludes the kind of developments that are most needed, which are multifamily housing developments that offer decent private space to individuals while being dense and connected enough to offer public amenities and transit.

dmje 4y ago

By the sea, in a small town in Cornwall. Loads to do, and he does a lot of it - he surfs, rides his bike, climbs, hangs with his mates. He’s an excellent fellow, and I hope nothing I’ve said suggests otherwise. When he’s not on his phone, he’s an incredibly balanced chap. Even when he is on his phone, he’s brilliant - as I said, he looks at some seriously interesting stuff, much of it about space and rockets and physics, as this is the stuff that sparks him. But my wider worry is still there - not just for him, but for all of us. A world seen through a 5” screen is just a poor facsimile. It’s not the world, full of the gnarly stuff - and the beautiful stuff - that goes on out here. Boredom is another thing - actually (as we hopefully all know by now..), boredom and downtime is useful. It lets the brain make sense of the world, it’s where the ideas happen. If your “downtime” is a constant buzz of notifications, or dopamine hits, what happens to inspiration, or those “tada” moments?

jstarfish 4y ago
Interesting point. I find my only "boredom" moments occur as I'm getting out of bed or as I'm trying to sleep. This might explain why I find myself chronically uninspired...and unproductive.

timmytokyo 4y ago

As a 50-something man who grew up in a pretty boring suburb, I rarely found myself lacking for things to do. I spent most of my time hanging out with friends, even if it was at the local arcade, strip mall or a friend's house. We'd ride our bicycles all over the city, explore the local creeks and hillsides, or play video games together (Atari, Intellivision, etc.). Eventually a few of us got home computers (Apple II or Commodore) and spent a huge amount of time playing games or programming, but there was always a desire to get together and do things outside. (The suburban experiences of the kids on E.T. reminds me a lot of my own childhood, minus the alien.) Most of us had chores and/or jobs. I had a paper route from age 12 to age 14. When I was at home, my parents were always kicking me out of the house to go do things outside or with friends. Most kids in my neighborhood were what you would classify today as "free range". That seemed to be the norm in those days. Today I look at kids with their heads buried in smart phones and feel a real sense of pity.

stevenicr 4y ago
I had similar experiences around a similar time frame. I had no idea how lucky I was. As an adult I moved to another city - what I found after moving is that there are no sidewalks, lots of hills, and virtually no where is safe to bike. (sadly this is still pretty much the case 20 years later around here, although they have added some 'bike lanes' and laws.. you couldn't pay me to bike around here. Arcades have closed, no skateboarding and similar trespass rules are common now to deter hanging out at strip malls and such. I keep recalling the news story some years back where a mom was arrested for allowing her kids to go to the park without a parent (maybe it was chicago or similar?) Friend's houses have become a worry about all the stories you see in the news / social feeds about drugging / raping / guns / unfiltered porn / hidden cams etc.. I too have pity for today's youth with heads in phones - however seeing what some of the other hoodlums are doing with idle hands these days, on top of the rampant dangers outside the homes, I'm glad there are all these screen options today.
actionablefiber 4y ago
A few major things have changed in the intervening time that have worsened the problem. First, the suburbs have expanded, greatly. This means they're farther out in the periphery on average, there are far more highways, roads, and parking structures needed to support them (with far more lanes and traffic), and it's consequently more difficult and dangerous to go places on your own, especially without a car, in any place that is in or connected to suburban developments. For reference, when I was going to elementary school in the late 2000s, my school was half a mile away on the other side of a five lane highway that had no sidewalk on the other side. It wasn't until later that a pedestrian/bike accessible trail was put in to allow access to getting downtown and even then it would still take 30-40 minutes walking or 10-15 minutes cycling and it sucked the whole time. And this was a less exurban development than many of the ones that have sprung up in the last decade. Secondly, perhaps in part as a reasonable reaction to the first and in part as an unreasonable reaction to fearmongering, parents are unwilling to let their kids venture out on their own without supervision, and even police each other, by calling the actual police on parents who let their kids travel alone. Thirdly, tech has just gotten better, in ways that make it higher quality and in ways that make it addictive. Browsing the internet and playing vidya is a better value proposition these days in many suburbs than going outside to navigate asphalt and private lawns as far as the eye can see.