4 ms·

> The westener who defends such rule are racists unable to grant the oriental people the right to live and organize in a manner of their choosing. Now, now, so

> The westener who defends such rule are racists unable to grant the oriental people the right to live and organize in a manner of their choosing. Now, now, some hold democracy in contempt generally, not just for foreigners. Others believe that people have a right to live and organise in a manner of their choosing, not that they must be governed in a manner pleasing to Westerners.

pphysch 4y ago
> Others believe that people have a right to live and organise in a manner of their choosing "I hate the government, not the people" is a thinly-veiled neocolonial trope when applied to sovereign nations like Iran. It translates to "I don't like it when those people govern themselves".
- DSingularity 4y ago
  And then when challenged on this they will say “no no, those countries are oppressing their people and limiting their freedom”. Ignoring how those governments operate in an adversarial environment of nations where if you don’t sell out your people you face endless assignation or coup plots by the Israeli Mossad or the American CIA. People today don’t realize the extent of the present evil and the depth of the historical of the west. Take communist China. How can you ignore the fact that Britain was literally a cartel for opium sales in China? When the emperor banned opium to get ahead of the epidemic what did “Great” Britain do? Respect the sovereignty of the Chinese people?
- usrusr 4y ago
  Possibly, but not necessarily. On the other side you have that pattern of "True, they are brutally oppressed, but that must be what they all want if the oppressor is of their own ethnicity, right?" It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about the form of government in a foreign country that isn't all positive.
  - pphysch 4y ago
    > True, they are brutally oppressed What you deem oppression is entirely cultural. It's your choice to project that on others. The Western liberal views the Iranian woman as oppressed because they can no longer freely sell their bodies. The Iranian revolutionary may view the Western sex worker as oppressed because capitalism effectively forces them to sell their body to buy shelter and food. Or something about spiritual oppression. I don't really know, to be honest. > It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about the form of government About as fine as caring about what your neighbor is doing in their bedroom. Which is to say, pretty weird, albeit normalized in imperialist societies. It's literally none of your business.
- andrepd 4y ago
  But they don't govern themselves, do they? There's no sense where you can say that the people of Iran are free to govern themselves and do so. You can hardly say that about western liberal democracies, let alone Iran.

pphysch 4y ago

> Others believe that people have a right to live and organise in a manner of their choosing "I hate the government, not the people" is a thinly-veiled neocolonial trope when applied to sovereign nations like Iran. It translates to "I don't like it when those people govern themselves".

DSingularity 4y ago
And then when challenged on this they will say “no no, those countries are oppressing their people and limiting their freedom”. Ignoring how those governments operate in an adversarial environment of nations where if you don’t sell out your people you face endless assignation or coup plots by the Israeli Mossad or the American CIA. People today don’t realize the extent of the present evil and the depth of the historical of the west. Take communist China. How can you ignore the fact that Britain was literally a cartel for opium sales in China? When the emperor banned opium to get ahead of the epidemic what did “Great” Britain do? Respect the sovereignty of the Chinese people?
usrusr 4y ago
Possibly, but not necessarily. On the other side you have that pattern of "True, they are brutally oppressed, but that must be what they all want if the oppressor is of their own ethnicity, right?" It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about the form of government in a foreign country that isn't all positive.
- pphysch 4y ago
  > True, they are brutally oppressed What you deem oppression is entirely cultural. It's your choice to project that on others. The Western liberal views the Iranian woman as oppressed because they can no longer freely sell their bodies. The Iranian revolutionary may view the Western sex worker as oppressed because capitalism effectively forces them to sell their body to buy shelter and food. Or something about spiritual oppression. I don't really know, to be honest. > It's perfectly fine to have an opinion about the form of government About as fine as caring about what your neighbor is doing in their bedroom. Which is to say, pretty weird, albeit normalized in imperialist societies. It's literally none of your business.
andrepd 4y ago
But they don't govern themselves, do they? There's no sense where you can say that the people of Iran are free to govern themselves and do so. You can hardly say that about western liberal democracies, let alone Iran.