4 ms·

In the 90’s when “selling out” was one of the really big insults you could make in the music scene[1] artist had this tendency of publicly hating on the record

In the 90’s when “selling out” was one of the really big insults you could make in the music scene[1] artist had this tendency of publicly hating on the record company. “These suits don’t know anything about art, they just want to sell records and we have to fight them every day to make art and stay real” As I kid I ate this up raw, but I feel like today we have a more mature relationship to this. In the above made up quote the artist is basically saying “we have a record company that can do the selling out so we don’t have to” [1] I believe it was the guitarist from Manic Street Preachers who carved “4 real” in his arm with a razor blade as a reaction to an interviewer accusing his band of selling out.

raverbashing 4y ago
"selling out" seems to be cheap criticism done for the sake of it (similar to what we today call "cancel culture") Yes, I'd like to get paid for my work, thanks very much.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Selling out is not about being paid for your work. Its about milking your product into every possible way just to push profit.
  - adrianmsmith 4y ago
    Also, if there's a choice between making greater art which is less popular and profitable, or making lesser art which is more popular and profitable, selling out is choosing to create the latter, whereas not selling out is choosing to create the former. Without having to know anything about art, if the artist persuades you that they are not "selling out" then they're persuading you that they're creating the best art possible i.e. you are consuming the best art possible i.e. you have great taste. Which feels great, so you buy more, which is the real reason why they're saying they're not selling out in the first place.
  - rapind 4y ago
    Like making a great successful product that your users love and then selling it to E corp. There’s inherent wisdom behind the anti-sellout stance though that’s both obvious and yet often overlooked. When you “sellout” you are eroding trust. You’re another straw on the camel’s back. You gradually ruin a good thing for others. For example, I’m reluctant to invest time in to small saas products because I know their business model is eventual acquisition, which almost always ruins the product. I’ve become far more discerning and cynical of startups. This can’t be great for software startups if (as) others also adopt my cynicism. That being said. When you have an opportunity to walk away with millions I’m sure it’s not easy to resist. You might even choose to believe your own PR (E Corp has the resources to take our startup to the next level etc.).
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    I guess I would have to disagree with that, selling out for me would be decreasing the quality of your work or changing aspects of it at the dictates of another party in order to make profit. Generally you are selling out to someone, for example a large organization, that then gets to dictate aspects of your work in order to increase the profitability of your work, or ways that they expect will increase profitability. In such a situation you have sold out creative control.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      An example of sellout. humble bundle. Even before they decided to be acquired by IGN they just kept pushing more and more crappy bundles just for the sake of profit and not quality. The mindset of making something special was long gone.
johncoltrane 4y ago
"Selling out" wasn't about signing contracts, selling records, and getting paid. Those were and still are the primary goals of even the punkest bands. When $BAND signs with $INDIE_LABEL no one accuses them of "selling out": friends and fans are happy for them and everyone knows that their first album will be a cleaner version of their second demo and everyone is perfectly OK with all that because it means more gigs, more tours, and more fun for everyone. The punk goes on. "Selling out" was about abandoning whatever the band or the scene was supposed to be about. It really was more of a moral thing. Of course it meant signing contracts but who they are signed with and what the consequences are for the artistic integrity of $BAND and $SCENE are very important in this case.

raverbashing 4y ago

"selling out" seems to be cheap criticism done for the sake of it (similar to what we today call "cancel culture") Yes, I'd like to get paid for my work, thanks very much.

ekianjo 4y ago
Selling out is not about being paid for your work. Its about milking your product into every possible way just to push profit.
- adrianmsmith 4y ago
  Also, if there's a choice between making greater art which is less popular and profitable, or making lesser art which is more popular and profitable, selling out is choosing to create the latter, whereas not selling out is choosing to create the former. Without having to know anything about art, if the artist persuades you that they are not "selling out" then they're persuading you that they're creating the best art possible i.e. you are consuming the best art possible i.e. you have great taste. Which feels great, so you buy more, which is the real reason why they're saying they're not selling out in the first place.
- rapind 4y ago
  Like making a great successful product that your users love and then selling it to E corp. There’s inherent wisdom behind the anti-sellout stance though that’s both obvious and yet often overlooked. When you “sellout” you are eroding trust. You’re another straw on the camel’s back. You gradually ruin a good thing for others. For example, I’m reluctant to invest time in to small saas products because I know their business model is eventual acquisition, which almost always ruins the product. I’ve become far more discerning and cynical of startups. This can’t be great for software startups if (as) others also adopt my cynicism. That being said. When you have an opportunity to walk away with millions I’m sure it’s not easy to resist. You might even choose to believe your own PR (E Corp has the resources to take our startup to the next level etc.).
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  I guess I would have to disagree with that, selling out for me would be decreasing the quality of your work or changing aspects of it at the dictates of another party in order to make profit. Generally you are selling out to someone, for example a large organization, that then gets to dictate aspects of your work in order to increase the profitability of your work, or ways that they expect will increase profitability. In such a situation you have sold out creative control.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    An example of sellout. humble bundle. Even before they decided to be acquired by IGN they just kept pushing more and more crappy bundles just for the sake of profit and not quality. The mindset of making something special was long gone.

johncoltrane 4y ago

"Selling out" wasn't about signing contracts, selling records, and getting paid. Those were and still are the primary goals of even the punkest bands. When $BAND signs with $INDIE_LABEL no one accuses them of "selling out": friends and fans are happy for them and everyone knows that their first album will be a cleaner version of their second demo and everyone is perfectly OK with all that because it means more gigs, more tours, and more fun for everyone. The punk goes on. "Selling out" was about abandoning whatever the band or the scene was supposed to be about. It really was more of a moral thing. Of course it meant signing contracts but who they are signed with and what the consequences are for the artistic integrity of $BAND and $SCENE are very important in this case.