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Dandelion Labs
- outside1234 15y agowhat value do I get out of this? (why don't I just go pitch a Angel directly?)
- grandalf 15y agoIf you're ready to go to an angel, then you're already sure that you're ready to drop everything to do your startup, so maybe you should. Dandelion is for people who have a great job, an idea they think has potential, and would like to create the best possible pitch to angels and convince themselves it's worth doing full time (not always easy if you have a great job). We also offer a superb way to find co-founders, designers, etc. And it's fun.
- kennystone 15y agoThis should go on the home page.
- yatendra 15y agoI second it. It should be on the home page.
- grandalf 15y agoadvice taken.
- Voice-of-Reason 15y agokennystone=grandalf
- grandalf 15y agoTook me a minute to figure out what you meant. Actually it's not.
- eps 15y agoDo tell more about your superb way of finding designers.
- 3am 15y agoEverything important on the site is 'TBA' or 'Coming soon' - is this serious?
- grandalf 15y agoYes, not all the details are final yet, as would be expected for the buildup to the first class.
- wilder 15y agoWho I'd be submitting my business idea to in confidence is not a detail.
- grandalf 15y agoAt this point it will just be me (grandalf) reading them. I'll get your permission before showing them to any of our board members or investors.
- OoTheNigerian 15y agoWho are you, Grandalf? What have you done? How sure are we this is not a side project for you too? Care to put a picture up? The very least would be for people to know who they are dealing with.
- grandalf 15y agoIt's absolutely a side project for the founding team at this point. That's the secret sauce that lets us recruit from the best players in the industry to help advise the class. With so much great opportunity out there, the most valuable thing we (creators) have is our time, and weekends belong to us. So let's do something amazing with that time that has tremendous upside. More detail about the team is coming.
- zacharytamas 15y ago
- synae 15y agoYou should probably run spellcheck on that page - start with "nubmer" :(
- grandalf 15y agoFixed: I'm the first to admit I'm a lousy speller. Though I won my jr high spelling bee.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- MattBearman 15y agoIs it wrong that the first thing I though when I saw that page was 'Twitter Bootstrap'? Think I need to get out more... Seriously though, it's an interesting idea, I'd say the copy on the homepage is a little misleading as it lead me to believe this is something that is already happening. My only query from a cursory glance is: what is my incentive to give a large steak in my company, seems giving more away benefits everyone but me
- grandalf 15y agoEverything has to start somewhere. You've correctly identified bootstrap :) You may not have any incentive to give up any of your company. The idea is to allow for companies/ideas at various stages to participate in the same class without it being about negotiating percentages, b/c that is not what's important at this point. 100% of $0 is $0.
- MattBearman 15y agoHey, I wasn't bashing the bootstrap :) in fact my latest side project http://dashpoll.com http://dashpoll.com uses it. I see your point regarding percentages, and Dandelion Labs is definitely something I'll be keeping an eye on.
- grandalf 15y agofantastic!
- bmelton 15y agoWell, true, but it's reciprocal. It benefits everybody else, who will presumably attempt to rally around you and/or share expertise when needed, maybe? Similarly, there are 99 other companies you will be invested in as well, and you will naturally want them to succeed.
- grandalf 15y agoExactly. Well put.
- bricestacey 15y agoI just launched an MVP the other day, but at least I removed the tabs which had blank content!
- grandalf 15y agoI thought the nav structure was a reasonably effective way to communicate the intended breadth/scope of the entity.
- shadowsun7 15y ago@grandalf: If so, just remove the links and keep the nav structure. That way nobody can click the links, but they can see how the nav looks like when it's done.
- JoachimSchipper 15y ago[EDIT: fixed.] The graph seems to imply that low-risk investment are the way to go: the blue line is comfortably over the red line in the "low risk" territory. Of course, the graph is useless anyway, but presumably it should be useless in a "give us your money" sense.
- jordan0day 15y agoAn interesting idea -- although this bit: "So every company in the class is co-owned by every other company." had me instantly picturing someone sputtering, "but, but, but, SOCIALISM!" Seriously, though, with that setup, isn't there an incentive to only work as had as necessary to get into a class, and then hope one of the other entrants strikes it rich, so I can take my little cut? Is that going too negative? We've all had projects that we were immensely interested in for a while, but then put had to put on the back burner, and ultimately dropped. How do you ensure you're not selecting 100 back burner-able projects? For an angel, is the draw of casting a wide net bigger than the risk of no one really being that committed to the work? One other thought, while forming a company/s-corp/llc might not be that hard these days, since you're essentially making a call for 100 "side project startups", you might want to add tools to automate the forming-a-legal-company side of things.
- grandalf 15y agoInsightful comments: Yes there will definitely be some duds, but why should the entrepreneur be expected to identify a product niche AND risk everything for it AND be able to fully validate the business concept enough to make big life decisions about it? Dandelion is to remove the stasis that having a good day job creates. We provide vetting, validation, help with proof of concept, find out if the rubber meets the road, etc. When you're ready to pitch to an angel your pitch will be 100x better, and you'll know what you're getting into, and if you met some people whose ideas didn't pan out, you now have a pool of potential co-founders or early hires who you know are looking for an early stage idea to get behind. In today's market, having a talented team ready to start is the #1 thing any investor should look for before investing serious money. Dandelion helps exceptional people seriously consider doing a startup, and helps build the early teams that make the company a good angel investment. And yes, you'll get a cheap/fast way to formalize the company when the time is right.
- alexwolfe 15y agoJust a basic comment. If you dont' have content for a page, don't put it in your navigation until it is ready. No one will be disappointed about a page they don't know exists. Coming Soon... is very 90's
- grandalf 15y agoYou may be right. My thoughts here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3212674 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3212674 I thought it might help spur the imagination of the reader to show the nav.
- alexwolfe 15y agoIt could have but the message didn't tie into spurring someone's imagination. Perhaps if you had something interesting such a picture, illustration, or even brief write up of what you expect this section to become it would have allowed for the user to imagine the potential. However, most of these pages just show "coming soon" or "tba". In many cases this leaves the user slightly annoyed by feeling tricked into clicking a link that had no content.
- neilk 15y agoTell that to Launchrock.
- rev087 15y agoI am truly excited with the idea, but can people outside the US apply?
- grandalf 15y agoYes.
- Voice-of-Reason 15y agoThen I'm worried about you... Read Lean Startup and BUILD out an MVP on your own. That's all this guy is doing -- doing it yourself will mean you don't have to give up ANYTHING.
- grandalf 15y agoFor some people that's the right choice, for others it's not. By that logic, someone should also ignore YC, etc. It's a choice every founder has.... different strokes, etc.
- rev087 15y agoI'm more than willing to trade a portion of the potential income for a whole community interested in my project's success. And since I would also own a fraction of every other project, if my own idea fails down the road I can simply leave it on hold and help the more promissing ones; it reduces risk not only for the investors, but also for the small guys.
- aherlambang 15y agoDon't really understand on how much potential money you can get from this? You're saying a max of 250 k per class and each group will just get 2500 - 5000 max?
- grandalf 15y agoIt's designed to be a very small round. Much like with other incubator concepts, the money is a formality. The nice thing about Dandelion is that applicants typically have a great day job that is paying their bills and living expenses, so 100% of dandelion's investment can go directly into the product.
- inuhj 15y agoHow is the money a formality? I don't understand what Dandelion plans to add beyond the money. The pitch suggests that this is for people looking for 2.5-5k for design, marketing, etc. It makes no mention of mentorship or any other benefits. How long do you expect the process from application->funding to be? If its longer than 8 weeks I would rather raise my 5k elsewhere(like with a credit card). Maybe set a time limit on how long a class can exist before it is considered full(even if its less than 100 companies). Why 100 companies? Is it just a nice, round number or is there thought behind it?
- grandalf 15y agoThose are excellent questions. The best way for us to address them is to update more of the copy on the site. The biggest thing we help with is validation, but we also help create winning teams, early hires, etc. The number 100 is intended to be large enough to make the investment truly diverse, large enough to attract a wide variety of talent and experience in each class, but small enough to be filled relatively easily. There is also no harm in applying multiple times or in scrapping a project and joining someone else's or submitting another idea. From the standpoint of the investor, it's an investment in people, and the specifics of the structure address the realities of risk aversion, talent acquisition, etc.
- djb_hackernews 15y agoI'm sure future investors will love to get involved with a headache of a company that already has 99 investors...
- grandalf 15y agoWhy do you consider this complicated?
- hornbaker 15y ago"Messy" cap tables certainly have the potential to scare off larger investors (VCs, super angels) in the future. Lots of very small stakeholders (not counting vested employees) add to legal costs at each round, and VCs sometimes refer to them as "ankle biters." IMHO $5K is not even close enough capital to consider adding 100 line items to a cap table.
- grandalf 15y agoWell, it could also be set up as an option pool, etc. I don't think it adds any significant friction.
- guywithabike 15y agoWho is running this and how is it in any way a good idea? If you're willing to give up control of your company for a measly few thousand, why not just take on some credit card debt?
- grandalf 15y agoGiving up a small percentage does not constitute giving up control. If it doesn't sound like a good deal to you then you should not apply.
- BallinBige 15y agoWhere is this located?
- grandalf 15y agoWe're in San Francisco, but applicants can be anywhere.
- itsnotvalid 15y agoAn initial round for the class is typically between $250K and $500K, so between $2500 and $5000 per company. So there would be 100 teams in a class (a team can be single person). Calculating from validation, say a classmate is giving up 10% (ceiling value suggested by YC) for $5000, that is 50000 in valuation. I wonder what pg would think on this.
- grandalf 15y agoIf we are doing things as intended, the value add by Dandelion will more than justify the overall valuation being close to PG's recommended ceiling. And a founder can always request slightly different terms. It's not about the terms at this phase, one just wants to avoid doing anything that will hinder future investment.
- ruethewhirled 15y agoThe distinct lack of information on the site doesn't instill much confidence
- zwentz 15y agoOkay, so I filled out the apply form on a whim, and there's not response to tell me that it went through. No confirmation on the site itself, no email, nothing. And a lot of "Coming Soon" on pages, I feel this may have been a bit early of a submission.
- grandalf 15y agoLooks like we may have had an issue with the form earlier. If you submitted an application and didn't get redirected to the thank you page, please resubmit it.