9 ms·

Dr. DOS Betamax's DOS Fansite

63 points by _krii 4y ago

ttgurney 4y ago
Don't remember how I stumbled on this site, but it had to have been 15-20 years ago that I did. Was pleasantly surprised to see that it's still online and that the author is still singing the praises of DOS.
- visiblink 4y ago
  I was just thinking that the site looks about the same as the first time I saw it too. That must have been around 2007. IIRC, that site once had Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 pages as well.
- marttt 4y ago
  I wonder how often and for what purposes (if at all?) does the Doc actually use DOS these days. These kind of rants [1] are always interesting and oddly inspiring. 1: E.g: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net&q=subject:%22Why+do+you+use+DOS%22&o=oldest&f=1 https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sou... Or: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net&q=subject:%22Why+I+use+DOS+a.k.a.+FreeDOS+for+Dummies\%3F%22&o=oldest&f=1 https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sou... Or: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net&q=subject:%22DOS+was+dead...%22&o=oldest&f=1 https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sou...
tpmx 4y ago
You don't see that /~username/ pattern in URLs so often these days. I always liked it.
- unixhero 4y ago
  Still configurable in Apache :)
  - chungy 4y ago
    With some work to get around SELinux rules. (And you do have SELinux on your server, right?)
    - iforgotpassword 4y ago
      Sure, it's not even that hard to configure, just set it to "disabled" and things actually start working. :-)
samwestdev 4y ago
Was DOS considered to be better than Windows back then?
- unixhero 4y ago
  They were different tools and could not be used to replace each others.
- smackeyacky 4y ago
  The transition to Windows was a lot more painful than the glossy history suggests. DOS had a huge eco-system of programs, TSRs to help you context switch, incredibly popular word processing and spreadsheet packages and solid networking if you had Netware available. Windows wouldn't even load on some PC's depending on which memory manager you had installed, what else you were trying to run and what kind of network stack(s) you had loaded. In some places, trying to get people to switch to Microsoft Word away from WordPerfect result in some very heated discussions. Similarly with products like "Sidekick"[0] - a manner of working that many people got used to. Windows was often an imposition from corporate. Windows 3.0 was popular but it wasn't necessarily an improvement over the way people were working with IBM PCs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate-and-stay-resident_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate-and-stay-resident_pr...
  - visiblink 4y ago
    On this note, the Royal Bank of Canada used a DOS-like system well into the 2000s. The tellers were amazingly proficient with it, entering data, hitting tab-tab-tab, entering more data, tab-tab-tab, etc. When they switched to Windows, you could see how much the point-and-click interface slowed them down.
    - smackeyacky 4y ago
      When we first starting writing windows programs back then, one of the main considerations of a desktop / client server CRUD program was getting the tabbing order right. A lot of those green screen / dos / mini computer CRUD programs were carefully designed around productivity with a keyboard.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wenc 4y ago
I read that as DR DOS (Digital Research) which I was enamored of until MS DOS 5.0 came out. Digital Research made GEM (a Mac-like desktop GUI) and included a pared down version called ViewMAX in DR DOS 5.0 but ultimately didn't deliver on providing a Mac-like interface.
- intothemild 4y ago
  Yeah I too loved DR-DOS until that was supplanted by Windows 3.11 and then Windows 95. Of all the flavours of DOS it was the best at the time.
- lproven 4y ago
  DR didn't deliver a Mac-like interface on DOS because Apple sued them: https://www.osnews.com/story/26322/apple-vs-dri-the-iotheri-look-and-feel-lawsuit/ https://www.osnews.com/story/26322/apple-vs-dri-the-iotheri-... But GEM ran on 2 different platforms: DOS PCs, and on the Atari ST. The Atari version was not affected by Apple's lawsuit and delivered a very slick interface. https://aranym.github.io/screenshots.html https://aranym.github.io/screenshots.html
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    Ahem! Sorry, those screenies don't show GEM as it looked at the times. That looks like something from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiNT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiNT which although started early after, wasn't that common and/or usable. It got a boost in development much later only, IIRC. What can be seen there is a work of love/passion, from not that much people, running in an emulator, which enables configurations which were either very expensive, rare, or didn't even ever exist.
    - lproven 4y ago
      I didn't claim that they were from the time. What I am saying is much simpler: that DR didn't deliver a Mac-like GEM on the PC for the excellent reason that Apple sued them to stop them doing it. That's why PC GEM got crippled, and ended up as just a file manager/app launcher in the form of ViewMax. (It is also worth nothing that Caldera subsidiary Lineo made GEM GPL around the turn of the century, and since then, PC GEM regained all the features Apple made DR remove and more, including Bézier curve support and things.) All I am saying is that Atari GEM wasn't crippled, was a popular and well-loved GUI that people are still using and working on even today. https://emutos.sourceforge.io/ https://emutos.sourceforge.io/ https://aranym.github.io/afros.html https://aranym.github.io/afros.html
donatj 4y ago
It’s odd to me these days to see a DOS defender. I grew up on DOS, but these days would take a Linux command line over it any day. I guess you need X to do anything graphical on Linux whereas pure dos games exist?
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  You can have framebuffer applications running without X. Not really much different than DOS other than the kernel is still mediating hardware access. Notably, you can build Qt apps that run without X.
  - marttt 4y ago
    I use Tiny Core Linux in framebuffer mode every day. Ali G. Rudi's framebuffer tools were a huge inspiration: https://litcave.rudi.ir/ https://litcave.rudi.ir/ I've also been curious about fbui (in-kernel windowing system). Not sure how well it works with current kernels, though: https://github.com/8l/fbui https://github.com/8l/fbui Having really modest needs, I even made an effort to use FreeDOS for essential tasks (writing, PDFs, some scripting), but gave up quickly as I cannot live without a good PDF pager or (for some tasks) soundcard support. I also had trouble with constant fan noise on DOS (you'll need some hacks to maybe get around this). It is still mind blowing how fast FreeDOS (or e.g. the even more barebones SvarDOS) boots. It took literally about 2 seconds to greet myself with the good old "C:\>". Also, it is a system that fits inside the head of even an ordinary person. This is really refreshing these days.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  In the olden days we used SDL ports of games that used a framebuffer, just the same as in DOS.
  - donatj 4y ago
    I wonder, Does a version of Doom exist doing this? Every version of Doom I have seen for Linux over the years required X
Lammy 4y ago
TIL the term "asperand" for the @ sign http://chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Char.html http://chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Char.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperand
- speps 4y ago
  You skipped that part of the Wikipedia article: "but none of these have achieved wide use." Arobase is used a lot in France, probably like the other Spanish and Portuguese terms. However, the English ones not so much.
  - Lammy 4y ago
    I didn't say anything about its popularity, just that I liked it and had never seen it before :)
mike_hock 4y ago
Lynx-friendly should become a web design standard.
- Bluecobra 4y ago
  I thought that was cute that that was an image, I had to make sure with lynx that the alt text was there.
marttt 4y ago
Somewhat related: a repository of FreeDOS-compatible freeware or open source software, no "abandonware": https://clasqm.github.io/freedos-repo/ https://clasqm.github.io/freedos-repo/
HeckFeck 4y ago
This reminds me of something you'd find on OldFiles back in the day: https://web.archive.org/web/20110407222115/http://www.oldfiles.org.uk/# https://web.archive.org/web/20110407222115/http://www.oldfil... It was a webring/directory for old computers and DOS/Win3x enthusiasts. Unfortunately long gone, but it lasted from 2003 until the mid 2010s.

63 points by _krii 4y ago

Don't remember how I stumbled on this site, but it had to have been 15-20 years ago that I did. Was pleasantly surprised to see that it's still online and that the author is still singing the praises of DOS.

visiblink 4y ago
I was just thinking that the site looks about the same as the first time I saw it too. That must have been around 2007. IIRC, that site once had Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 pages as well.
marttt 4y ago
I wonder how often and for what purposes (if at all?) does the Doc actually use DOS these days. These kind of rants [1] are always interesting and oddly inspiring. 1: E.g: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net&q=subject:%22Why+do+you+use+DOS%22&o=oldest&f=1 https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sou... Or: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net&q=subject:%22Why+I+use+DOS+a.k.a.+FreeDOS+for+Dummies\%3F%22&o=oldest&f=1 https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sou... Or: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net&q=subject:%22DOS+was+dead...%22&o=oldest&f=1 https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=freedos-user@lists.sou...

tpmx 4y ago

You don't see that /~username/ pattern in URLs so often these days. I always liked it.

unixhero 4y ago
Still configurable in Apache :)
- chungy 4y ago
  With some work to get around SELinux rules. (And you do have SELinux on your server, right?)
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    Sure, it's not even that hard to configure, just set it to "disabled" and things actually start working. :-)

samwestdev 4y ago

Was DOS considered to be better than Windows back then?

unixhero 4y ago
They were different tools and could not be used to replace each others.
smackeyacky 4y ago
The transition to Windows was a lot more painful than the glossy history suggests. DOS had a huge eco-system of programs, TSRs to help you context switch, incredibly popular word processing and spreadsheet packages and solid networking if you had Netware available. Windows wouldn't even load on some PC's depending on which memory manager you had installed, what else you were trying to run and what kind of network stack(s) you had loaded. In some places, trying to get people to switch to Microsoft Word away from WordPerfect result in some very heated discussions. Similarly with products like "Sidekick"[0] - a manner of working that many people got used to. Windows was often an imposition from corporate. Windows 3.0 was popular but it wasn't necessarily an improvement over the way people were working with IBM PCs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate-and-stay-resident_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate-and-stay-resident_pr...
- visiblink 4y ago
  On this note, the Royal Bank of Canada used a DOS-like system well into the 2000s. The tellers were amazingly proficient with it, entering data, hitting tab-tab-tab, entering more data, tab-tab-tab, etc. When they switched to Windows, you could see how much the point-and-click interface slowed them down.
  - smackeyacky 4y ago
    When we first starting writing windows programs back then, one of the main considerations of a desktop / client server CRUD program was getting the tabbing order right. A lot of those green screen / dos / mini computer CRUD programs were carefully designed around productivity with a keyboard.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

wenc 4y ago

I read that as DR DOS (Digital Research) which I was enamored of until MS DOS 5.0 came out. Digital Research made GEM (a Mac-like desktop GUI) and included a pared down version called ViewMAX in DR DOS 5.0 but ultimately didn't deliver on providing a Mac-like interface.

intothemild 4y ago
Yeah I too loved DR-DOS until that was supplanted by Windows 3.11 and then Windows 95. Of all the flavours of DOS it was the best at the time.
lproven 4y ago
DR didn't deliver a Mac-like interface on DOS because Apple sued them: https://www.osnews.com/story/26322/apple-vs-dri-the-iotheri-look-and-feel-lawsuit/ https://www.osnews.com/story/26322/apple-vs-dri-the-iotheri-... But GEM ran on 2 different platforms: DOS PCs, and on the Atari ST. The Atari version was not affected by Apple's lawsuit and delivered a very slick interface. https://aranym.github.io/screenshots.html https://aranym.github.io/screenshots.html
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  Ahem! Sorry, those screenies don't show GEM as it looked at the times. That looks like something from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiNT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiNT which although started early after, wasn't that common and/or usable. It got a boost in development much later only, IIRC. What can be seen there is a work of love/passion, from not that much people, running in an emulator, which enables configurations which were either very expensive, rare, or didn't even ever exist.
  - lproven 4y ago
    I didn't claim that they were from the time. What I am saying is much simpler: that DR didn't deliver a Mac-like GEM on the PC for the excellent reason that Apple sued them to stop them doing it. That's why PC GEM got crippled, and ended up as just a file manager/app launcher in the form of ViewMax. (It is also worth nothing that Caldera subsidiary Lineo made GEM GPL around the turn of the century, and since then, PC GEM regained all the features Apple made DR remove and more, including Bézier curve support and things.) All I am saying is that Atari GEM wasn't crippled, was a popular and well-loved GUI that people are still using and working on even today. https://emutos.sourceforge.io/ https://emutos.sourceforge.io/ https://aranym.github.io/afros.html https://aranym.github.io/afros.html

donatj 4y ago

It’s odd to me these days to see a DOS defender. I grew up on DOS, but these days would take a Linux command line over it any day. I guess you need X to do anything graphical on Linux whereas pure dos games exist?

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
You can have framebuffer applications running without X. Not really much different than DOS other than the kernel is still mediating hardware access. Notably, you can build Qt apps that run without X.
- marttt 4y ago
  I use Tiny Core Linux in framebuffer mode every day. Ali G. Rudi's framebuffer tools were a huge inspiration: https://litcave.rudi.ir/ https://litcave.rudi.ir/ I've also been curious about fbui (in-kernel windowing system). Not sure how well it works with current kernels, though: https://github.com/8l/fbui https://github.com/8l/fbui Having really modest needs, I even made an effort to use FreeDOS for essential tasks (writing, PDFs, some scripting), but gave up quickly as I cannot live without a good PDF pager or (for some tasks) soundcard support. I also had trouble with constant fan noise on DOS (you'll need some hacks to maybe get around this). It is still mind blowing how fast FreeDOS (or e.g. the even more barebones SvarDOS) boots. It took literally about 2 seconds to greet myself with the good old "C:\>". Also, it is a system that fits inside the head of even an ordinary person. This is really refreshing these days.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
In the olden days we used SDL ports of games that used a framebuffer, just the same as in DOS.
- donatj 4y ago
  I wonder, Does a version of Doom exist doing this? Every version of Doom I have seen for Linux over the years required X

Lammy 4y ago

TIL the term "asperand" for the @ sign http://chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Char.html http://chebucto.ns.ca/~ak621/DOS/DOS-Char.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperand

speps 4y ago
You skipped that part of the Wikipedia article: "but none of these have achieved wide use." Arobase is used a lot in France, probably like the other Spanish and Portuguese terms. However, the English ones not so much.
- Lammy 4y ago
  I didn't say anything about its popularity, just that I liked it and had never seen it before :)

mike_hock 4y ago

Lynx-friendly should become a web design standard.

Bluecobra 4y ago
I thought that was cute that that was an image, I had to make sure with lynx that the alt text was there.

marttt 4y ago

Somewhat related: a repository of FreeDOS-compatible freeware or open source software, no "abandonware": https://clasqm.github.io/freedos-repo/ https://clasqm.github.io/freedos-repo/

HeckFeck 4y ago

This reminds me of something you'd find on OldFiles back in the day: https://web.archive.org/web/20110407222115/http://www.oldfiles.org.uk/# https://web.archive.org/web/20110407222115/http://www.oldfil... It was a webring/directory for old computers and DOS/Win3x enthusiasts. Unfortunately long gone, but it lasted from 2003 until the mid 2010s.