5 ms·

Yep. The decline of humanity will be at the hands of greater spotted fucking moron, of which Chris Landis is clearly a prime example of the species. You can ha

by iasay 4y ago

Yep. The decline of humanity will be at the hands of greater spotted fucking moron, of which Chris Landis is clearly a prime example of the species. You can have both. But really the entire planet works on making negative side effects of solving a problem someone else's problem and this spans from globalisation of supply chains to energy supply. This attitude just enables it. People needs to start looking at local self-sufficiency of energy and materials to some degree.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> People needs to start looking at local self-sufficiency of energy and materials to some degree. This is a complete, unrealistic pipe dream. Yes, we've obviously seen a "deglobalization" occurring, and many countries are feeling the pain of being completely dependent on critical fuel and materials from one or a few other countries with shaky political systems. But the idea that "local self sufficiency" is possible on a wide scale, without sending us all back to the stone age, is quite frankly nonsense. I remember reading an article a while back about how something as ubiquitous as a cheeseburger is only possible with wide, nation-crossing supply chains. Saying "we should look at local self sufficiency" makes people think of planting a garden in their back yard, when in reality it would mean virtually all of the advances in human comfort, health and convenience over the past couple hundred years or so would have to be given up.
- iasay 4y ago
  I'm not suggesting that we send ourselves back to the stone age. I'm suggesting that we stop shipping resources half way around the planet and then send the trash back because it's cheaper. The last 50-80 years at least has been a race to the lowest cost with no consideration for any consequences such as the environment, security and stability. UK is a fine example. We had a great steel industry here. But it's cheaper to buy it from China and India and it helps us hit our pollution targets not processing it here. But we just pushed the problem to where the side effects aren't immediately visible. The real issue is our consumption and use of materials. This is the reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy63PEgmm8w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy63PEgmm8w
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - b112 4y ago
    Or how about in BC, where sawdust is shipped by the gigatonne to China, gets made into particle board, and comes back as cheap furniture?
    - lamontcg 4y ago
      If you had non polluting shipping and the costs were still cheap enough there would be nothing intrinsically wrong with this. The problem is the market externalities of the pollution of our current shipping methods, and likely the imbalances in the labor markets and regulation. If you fixed those, then it would probably no longer make sense to do that, but you can't fix those systemic problems by banning the symptoms of them.
- mmmpop 4y ago
  > I remember reading an article a while back about how something as ubiquitous as a cheeseburger is only possible with wide, nation-crossing supply chains. I'm the article was informative but I know where a few cows are and I know how to at least field dress a carcass, so I bet I can wrangle me some hamburger.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    Sure, but >90% of people don’t have whatever upbringing (or interests/hobbies) that led you to have that knowledge, so at a population scale the point stands.
  - smackeyacky 4y ago
    I'm sure you can, but it doesn't scale. The only way we eat is industrialised agriculture. You will be fighting your neighbours for that cow and wasting most of it. Similarly with "backyard plots" and that other great modern stupidity, the vertical indoor garden. Like anybody will be lazily reaching over to pick a tomato from their indoor vertical garden instead of the monstrous greenhouses that most tomatoes come from these days.
    - lovich 4y ago
      I agree with you that we rely on industrial agriculture and the amount of space someone needs to fully feed themselves is larger than most peoples available space, but I and others totally reach for the shit we grow before resorting to buying in a store, I don’t know why you think that can’t subsidize some need for shipping food
      - smackeyacky 4y ago
        For basics like potatoes, carrots, onions etc. this is possibly doable but it isn't going to replace a families worth of food. For an individual or a couple, maybe. But certainly not all year. If you use the old-school Australian "quarter acre block" you might do a families vegetables for part of the year. As a supplement, it's worthwhile. As a substitute it's non viable.
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  >a cheeseburger is only possible with wide, nation-crossing supply chains. I know you are just giving an example - I get your concept - but frankly all the ingredients for a darn good cheeseburger are produced within a two hour drive of where I live, on an industrial scale. Maybe I'm just really lucky, but on the other hand if you go back just a bit more than 50 years ago, most small towns had their own dairies, bakers, butchers, local farmers and rancher, they had various kinds of factories and industrial producers - and maybe this is one place where we need to go back in history.
vasco 4y ago
That dude's quote is definitely moronic but you making the leap that globalization is somehow the root of all of society's problems is pretty close.
- dylan604 4y ago
  After using the term spotted fucking moron, I don't mind anything else as I now have a new phrase I can borrow/steal/use to describe people of a certain type that couldn't be more appropriately named.
pigtailgirl 4y ago
-- looking at their website I can see why this is his mindset - they appear to be extremely traditional - and his bio - well - the dude is ooolllddd -- https://www.landisconstruction.com/our-portfolio/ https://www.landisconstruction.com/our-portfolio/
mistrial9 4y ago
I am here to tell you that these food miles and industrial material miles, were of deep concern and in the public discourse fifty years ago; and that my grandmother's brother told me that suburban housing patterns were of deep concern and in the public discourse seventy five years ago. The "markets" decided this course of action? many, many business people competitively won over others doing it differently. It was the winning by competition that was elevated. The results of the competition were "oh thats how it worked out". A deep philosophical skepticism of central planning, a lust for industrial-scale profits, and the lessons of warfare where certain kinds of weapons won and the loser was dead forever; all contributed to this kind of decision-making contest. We live amidst the results now.

by iasay 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

> People needs to start looking at local self-sufficiency of energy and materials to some degree. This is a complete, unrealistic pipe dream. Yes, we've obviously seen a "deglobalization" occurring, and many countries are feeling the pain of being completely dependent on critical fuel and materials from one or a few other countries with shaky political systems. But the idea that "local self sufficiency" is possible on a wide scale, without sending us all back to the stone age, is quite frankly nonsense. I remember reading an article a while back about how something as ubiquitous as a cheeseburger is only possible with wide, nation-crossing supply chains. Saying "we should look at local self sufficiency" makes people think of planting a garden in their back yard, when in reality it would mean virtually all of the advances in human comfort, health and convenience over the past couple hundred years or so would have to be given up.

iasay 4y ago
I'm not suggesting that we send ourselves back to the stone age. I'm suggesting that we stop shipping resources half way around the planet and then send the trash back because it's cheaper. The last 50-80 years at least has been a race to the lowest cost with no consideration for any consequences such as the environment, security and stability. UK is a fine example. We had a great steel industry here. But it's cheaper to buy it from China and India and it helps us hit our pollution targets not processing it here. But we just pushed the problem to where the side effects aren't immediately visible. The real issue is our consumption and use of materials. This is the reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy63PEgmm8w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy63PEgmm8w
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- b112 4y ago
  Or how about in BC, where sawdust is shipped by the gigatonne to China, gets made into particle board, and comes back as cheap furniture?
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    If you had non polluting shipping and the costs were still cheap enough there would be nothing intrinsically wrong with this. The problem is the market externalities of the pollution of our current shipping methods, and likely the imbalances in the labor markets and regulation. If you fixed those, then it would probably no longer make sense to do that, but you can't fix those systemic problems by banning the symptoms of them.
mmmpop 4y ago
> I remember reading an article a while back about how something as ubiquitous as a cheeseburger is only possible with wide, nation-crossing supply chains. I'm the article was informative but I know where a few cows are and I know how to at least field dress a carcass, so I bet I can wrangle me some hamburger.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  Sure, but >90% of people don’t have whatever upbringing (or interests/hobbies) that led you to have that knowledge, so at a population scale the point stands.
- smackeyacky 4y ago
  I'm sure you can, but it doesn't scale. The only way we eat is industrialised agriculture. You will be fighting your neighbours for that cow and wasting most of it. Similarly with "backyard plots" and that other great modern stupidity, the vertical indoor garden. Like anybody will be lazily reaching over to pick a tomato from their indoor vertical garden instead of the monstrous greenhouses that most tomatoes come from these days.
  - lovich 4y ago
    I agree with you that we rely on industrial agriculture and the amount of space someone needs to fully feed themselves is larger than most peoples available space, but I and others totally reach for the shit we grow before resorting to buying in a store, I don’t know why you think that can’t subsidize some need for shipping food
    - smackeyacky 4y ago
      For basics like potatoes, carrots, onions etc. this is possibly doable but it isn't going to replace a families worth of food. For an individual or a couple, maybe. But certainly not all year. If you use the old-school Australian "quarter acre block" you might do a families vegetables for part of the year. As a supplement, it's worthwhile. As a substitute it's non viable.
poulsbohemian 4y ago
>a cheeseburger is only possible with wide, nation-crossing supply chains. I know you are just giving an example - I get your concept - but frankly all the ingredients for a darn good cheeseburger are produced within a two hour drive of where I live, on an industrial scale. Maybe I'm just really lucky, but on the other hand if you go back just a bit more than 50 years ago, most small towns had their own dairies, bakers, butchers, local farmers and rancher, they had various kinds of factories and industrial producers - and maybe this is one place where we need to go back in history.

vasco 4y ago

That dude's quote is definitely moronic but you making the leap that globalization is somehow the root of all of society's problems is pretty close.

dylan604 4y ago
After using the term spotted fucking moron, I don't mind anything else as I now have a new phrase I can borrow/steal/use to describe people of a certain type that couldn't be more appropriately named.

pigtailgirl 4y ago

-- looking at their website I can see why this is his mindset - they appear to be extremely traditional - and his bio - well - the dude is ooolllddd -- https://www.landisconstruction.com/our-portfolio/ https://www.landisconstruction.com/our-portfolio/

mistrial9 4y ago

I am here to tell you that these food miles and industrial material miles, were of deep concern and in the public discourse fifty years ago; and that my grandmother's brother told me that suburban housing patterns were of deep concern and in the public discourse seventy five years ago. The "markets" decided this course of action? many, many business people competitively won over others doing it differently. It was the winning by competition that was elevated. The results of the competition were "oh thats how it worked out". A deep philosophical skepticism of central planning, a lust for industrial-scale profits, and the lessons of warfare where certain kinds of weapons won and the loser was dead forever; all contributed to this kind of decision-making contest. We live amidst the results now.