3 ms·

Practically speaking, none of these things will happen. This is actually one of the big hurdles to getting some people into therapy/treatment/medication that t

Practically speaking, none of these things will happen. This is actually one of the big hurdles to getting some people into therapy/treatment/medication that they need: They imagine a lot of catastrophic scenarios about what could possibly happen if they get the help they need, which creates a gridlock that traps them in their situation. From a pure risk management perspective, the highest risk by far in these scenarios is failing to accept help that could improve the underlying problems. If someone reaches the point of considering suicide, it doesn't make sense to refuse help due to hypothetical fears about some future job obtaining phone records and declining someone for a job (which isn't a thing that happens, BTW). Don't let fear of far-reaching hypotheticals get in the way of making progress on mental health.

WebbWeaver 4y ago
You are 100% wrong. The current infrastructure only exists to reduce liability (hr ect) and nothing more. It could be subsidized to prevent poor outcomes but I'm honestly afraid of the lobbying against it.
autoexec 4y ago
> Practically speaking, none of these things will happen. Practically speaking, these kinds of things are happening every day. I would agree that it might be better to take the help and live accepting the lifelong consequences of your actions in seeking that help. A life where you lose your children, lose job offers, or have your deepest troubles exposed to the world might easily still be a life worth living. The reality is that we've created and enabled a system that hurts people. Our communications are logged forever and we have no power to limit the ways that data can be used against us. It's only natural for people to take that into account before doing something that makes them so very vulnerable.
- dntrkv 4y ago
  How will you lose your children? How will you lose job offers? Children aren’t even taken away where there is known abuse going on. Lose job offers? How would a company even know you were seeking help?
  - edub 4y ago
    https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/abolish-child-protective-services-torn-apart-dorothy-roberts-book-excerpt/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/abolish-ch...
  - autoexec 4y ago
    you lose your children when in the middle a custody battle your partner (or ex-partner) subpoenas your phone records, or even your medical records, and uses that to help convince a judge that you're unfit due to your mental health issues and that those issues will have an impact on your child. (see https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/parents-mental-illness-child-custody-battles/ https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/parents-mental-illness-chil...). The stigma that exists surrounding mental illness makes losing your child far too easy. How would you lose a job? Your would-be employer faced with two otherwise equally qualified candidates pays a third party to run a background check that includes information lifted from your social media sites (https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/social-media-survey-2017 https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/social-media-survey-201...) and collected from data brokers. > Data brokers will often combine all the information outlined in these two lists to build complex profiles about each of us. These profiles are used for an increasing number of purposes, from serving targeted advertising to crafting insurance policies to providing background checks for employers. (source: https://www.digitaltrends.com/web/its-a-data-brokers-world-and-we-just-live-in-it/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/web/its-a-data-brokers-world-a...). The FTC has warned about this kind of thing (https://www.nydailynews.com/sdut-ftc-puts-background-check-sites-on-notice-2013may07-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/sdut-ftc-puts-background-check-s...) but it still happens. Maybe you called the suicide hotline using your cell phone and some sketchy app (like a call blocking app or facebook: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/25/17160944/facebook-call-history-sms-data-collection-android https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/25/17160944/facebook-call-hi... or even a stalker app: https://news.softpedia.com/news/stalker-android-apps-with-thousands-of-downloads-found-in-google-play-store-526754.shtml https://news.softpedia.com/news/stalker-android-apps-with-th...) sold your contacts/call history or maybe your phone company did it. See this example from the article here: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/att-accused-of-violating-privacy-law-with-sale-of-phone-records-to-cia/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/att-accused-of-v... > "[T]he sale of CPNI to the government isn’t our only concern—when we did a little more poking around, we found that all four major mobile carriers (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon) have privacy policies that indicate they believe it is OK to sell or share similar records to anyone," It's not really a question of "how is anyone going to know?". Every communication you make is logged forever and shared (read: sold) with "partners" and turned over to the state. Someone, somewhere, will absolutely have that data. You aren't allowed to know who has it, where they got it, how accurate it is, what they are doing with it, or how/if it's being secured, but it is out there and it will follow you for the rest of your life.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
What "far reaching hypotheticals"? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32122139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32122139 I've heard over and over horror stories along those lines. Someone having a mental health crisis calls emergency services for help (and absolute best case scenario they get a very expensive taxi ride to the ER) or goes to the ER themselves. The ER pumps them full of drugs or just locks them in what amounts to a prison, does nothing to treat people or connect them with services but charge tens of thousands of dollars, leaving people in the same spot they were in before but with mountains of medical debt. Or, someone is honest with their therapist, the therapist prioritizes not getting hit with a malpractice lawsuit so they report their patient to the police, and...see above, except worse, because the patient isn't expecting it nor did they consent to such a sudden and drastic intervention.

WebbWeaver 4y ago

You are 100% wrong. The current infrastructure only exists to reduce liability (hr ect) and nothing more. It could be subsidized to prevent poor outcomes but I'm honestly afraid of the lobbying against it.

autoexec 4y ago

> Practically speaking, none of these things will happen. Practically speaking, these kinds of things are happening every day. I would agree that it might be better to take the help and live accepting the lifelong consequences of your actions in seeking that help. A life where you lose your children, lose job offers, or have your deepest troubles exposed to the world might easily still be a life worth living. The reality is that we've created and enabled a system that hurts people. Our communications are logged forever and we have no power to limit the ways that data can be used against us. It's only natural for people to take that into account before doing something that makes them so very vulnerable.

dntrkv 4y ago
How will you lose your children? How will you lose job offers? Children aren’t even taken away where there is known abuse going on. Lose job offers? How would a company even know you were seeking help?
- edub 4y ago
  https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/abolish-child-protective-services-torn-apart-dorothy-roberts-book-excerpt/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/abolish-ch...
- autoexec 4y ago
  you lose your children when in the middle a custody battle your partner (or ex-partner) subpoenas your phone records, or even your medical records, and uses that to help convince a judge that you're unfit due to your mental health issues and that those issues will have an impact on your child. (see https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/parents-mental-illness-child-custody-battles/ https://dadsdivorce.com/articles/parents-mental-illness-chil...). The stigma that exists surrounding mental illness makes losing your child far too easy. How would you lose a job? Your would-be employer faced with two otherwise equally qualified candidates pays a third party to run a background check that includes information lifted from your social media sites (https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/social-media-survey-2017 https://www.careerbuilder.com/advice/social-media-survey-201...) and collected from data brokers. > Data brokers will often combine all the information outlined in these two lists to build complex profiles about each of us. These profiles are used for an increasing number of purposes, from serving targeted advertising to crafting insurance policies to providing background checks for employers. (source: https://www.digitaltrends.com/web/its-a-data-brokers-world-and-we-just-live-in-it/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/web/its-a-data-brokers-world-a...). The FTC has warned about this kind of thing (https://www.nydailynews.com/sdut-ftc-puts-background-check-sites-on-notice-2013may07-story.html https://www.nydailynews.com/sdut-ftc-puts-background-check-s...) but it still happens. Maybe you called the suicide hotline using your cell phone and some sketchy app (like a call blocking app or facebook: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/25/17160944/facebook-call-history-sms-data-collection-android https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/25/17160944/facebook-call-hi... or even a stalker app: https://news.softpedia.com/news/stalker-android-apps-with-thousands-of-downloads-found-in-google-play-store-526754.shtml https://news.softpedia.com/news/stalker-android-apps-with-th...) sold your contacts/call history or maybe your phone company did it. See this example from the article here: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/att-accused-of-violating-privacy-law-with-sale-of-phone-records-to-cia/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/12/att-accused-of-v... > "[T]he sale of CPNI to the government isn’t our only concern—when we did a little more poking around, we found that all four major mobile carriers (AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon) have privacy policies that indicate they believe it is OK to sell or share similar records to anyone," It's not really a question of "how is anyone going to know?". Every communication you make is logged forever and shared (read: sold) with "partners" and turned over to the state. Someone, somewhere, will absolutely have that data. You aren't allowed to know who has it, where they got it, how accurate it is, what they are doing with it, or how/if it's being secured, but it is out there and it will follow you for the rest of your life.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

What "far reaching hypotheticals"? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32122139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32122139 I've heard over and over horror stories along those lines. Someone having a mental health crisis calls emergency services for help (and absolute best case scenario they get a very expensive taxi ride to the ER) or goes to the ER themselves. The ER pumps them full of drugs or just locks them in what amounts to a prison, does nothing to treat people or connect them with services but charge tens of thousands of dollars, leaving people in the same spot they were in before but with mountains of medical debt. Or, someone is honest with their therapist, the therapist prioritizes not getting hit with a malpractice lawsuit so they report their patient to the police, and...see above, except worse, because the patient isn't expecting it nor did they consent to such a sudden and drastic intervention.