5 ms·

In my area, I see a fair number of manufactured homes placed on permanent foundations on private lots come up for sale. For whatever reason, they almost never m

by ssharp 4y ago

In my area, I see a fair number of manufactured homes placed on permanent foundations on private lots come up for sale. For whatever reason, they almost never mention the fact that they are manufactured, which I guess must not be a legal requirement. They are pretty easy to tell apart -- vaulted ceilings that end up being very close to door height, strips that cover seams in the drywall, a very clear split down the center where the house was shipped in two parts, etc. I cannot believe people are either naively buying these homes for the price of a normal house or don't even realize it's a manufactured home. There is a lot you can do to make these homes nicer but coming from the factory, so much of the materials are sub-par. Most of the "cabinets" are just fronts placed onto thin particle board "frames" that are sloppily stapled together. The plastic plumbing fittings are very prone to wearing down quickly. A lot of the times the bathroom plumbing isn't vented. The windows are absolute garbage. The furnace and water heater are squeezed into a tiny cubby that would probably have to access from a small access door in one of the closets, or maybe two closets, where each side can access a certain portion of it. Sinks are made of thin, cheap plastic. Lots of things can also be built to a code that wouldn't be allowed in other construction -- the electric wires are 3-in-1 wires that snap directly into the outlets, the house's frame is thinner than normally allowed, drywall is thinner, etc. etc. I think all that is fine if you know what you're getting but I suspect a lot of people don't realize what they're actually buying.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
> I think all that is fine if you know what you're getting but I suspect a lot of people don't realize what they're actually buying. They realize. They can't afford anything else. From the article: > Almost as soon as trailers appeared, they began to be used for year-round living rather than camping trips, typically by traveling salesman or other itinerant workers. In the 1920s and 30s it was estimated that between 10 and 25% of trailers were used for year-round accommodation. And as unemployment soared and housing starts collapsed during the Great Depression, trailer living became more common. By 1937, it was estimated that 50% of new trailers were purchased as permanent shelter. The "van life" trend should have been a huge warning sign...
01100011 4y ago
There are, or used to be a few decades ago when I last checked, some surprisingly well built factory homes. They're not all mobile home quality. Concerning quality, my sister bought a tract home in WA state a few years ago and the quality was comparable to a mobile home. The appliances were as cheap as possible, cabinets were poor quality, and even the home placement on the non-rectangular lot was very odd. The back fence was about 2' from her rear door, despite having a huge side yard to the right and left.
iancmceachern 4y ago
I was told the following by a guy in central California who built his own little subdivision and put a bunch of double wide manufactured homes on 1 acre plots. This was a pretty rural area. He said that he effectively couldn't find the labor to build even a semi high quality home in that rural of an area. He said anything they'd stick build in that area would be of lesser quality than a decent manufactured home due to lack of good contractor availability. He also said, and my understanding agrees, that once you bolt it to a foundation, all done per code, there isn't really a clean way to say it's anything other than a house. If the while thing is made to code, meets the national and local building codes, is mounted to a code meeting foundation and utilities, it's a house. This applies to manufactured homes built as such, not things like travel trailers or destination trailers which people often conflate with true manufactured homes. Rvs amd destination trailers, things that never go off their wheels and often have lattice or other wood skirting around their base to hide the wheels and frame are regulated by RVIA amd meet their codes, not the national building codes. True manufactured homes meet the national and local building codes, it's just the assembly location is different.
- coding123 4y ago
  If you have an actual foundation. Most MF homes in CA require the XI2 tie down system. Some of the manufactured home installers don't even pour a drop of concrete when they place your home. Most of the time it's gravel with some stamped concrete plates about 4" thick placed vertically as your "foundation".
  - StillBored 4y ago
    https://www.mobilehomerepair.com/mobile-home-anchors-how-they-work-methods-diy-and-more/ https://www.mobilehomerepair.com/mobile-home-anchors-how-the...
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    This guy hired a foundation company and they laid a cinder block and morter foundation.
newsclues 4y ago
Lots of traditionally manufactured homes have the same issues you mentioned, it’s just people cutting corners for cost.
wincy 4y ago
Some of the things I wanted in a manufactured home are ILLEGAL. I thought it was extremely strange that I would have to get a ducted HVAC system. Under floor heating is for some reason literally illegal (unless you retrofit it) and I am still scratching my head as to why.
- danans 4y ago
  > Under floor heating is for some reason literally illegal (unless you retrofit it) and I am still scratching my head as to why. Mobile homes generally have little no insulation of any kind underneath, and their subfloors are exposed to exterior air, so the heat would be quickly lost to the outside environment. You could in theory make a highly insulated subfloor on a mobile home (i.e. 2" of polyiso foam board) on which you could install electric or hydronic heating, but you would then lose a significant amount of already limited ceiling height.
  - rascul 4y ago
    > Mobile homes generally have little no insulation of any kind underneath, and their subfloors are exposed to exterior air, so the heat would be quickly lost to the outside environment. Almost every one I've worked on has a 3/4" sub floor (probably cheap press board), loose fill insulation in between the 2x6 joists, then plastic (5 mil maybe?) attached to the under side of the floor joists. That plastic tends to be very ripped up so much of the floor has exposed or no insulation under it.
    - danans 4y ago
      So little to no insulation. What you describe is "little" insulation. In climates like CA it tends toward "no insulation".
      - rascul 4y ago
        I didn't mean to contradict you, just to expand on it a bit. The insulation is generally crap, in the places it exists. Edit: Sorry if my comment came out the wrong way.
cudgy 4y ago
An inspection is required for most home purchases that are financed. The inspection report would clearly indicate the construction type. If buyers aren’t reading their inspection reports, what can you do?
- zippergz 4y ago
  I don't think this is accurate in the US. Yes, FHA loans require inspections, but they are WELL under half of all mortgages, and I am not aware of any other major lenders or loan programs that require inspections (there probably are some, but I have never encountered one in many home purchases and sales). Most do require appraisals, but an appraisal is very different than an inspection, and usually the buyer does not see the appraisal report (as the actual customer is the lender, not the buyer).
- analog31 4y ago
  I've had home inspections done. It's a scam. The inspector finds one or two token things, and creates a fancy looking report.
amluto 4y ago
> the electric wires are 3-in-1 wires that snap directly into the outlets I’m curious what these are. I’ve seen these, and they’re quite nice and more expensive than normal outlets: https://www.legrand.us/pass-and-seymour/plugtail https://www.legrand.us/pass-and-seymour/plugtail They’re convenient if you have a large electrical box and you need a pigtail anyway (e.g. you’re jumping off the box to feed another outlet), but not really a win otherwise. If you buy them, get the stranded version for an extra dollar or so and consider using lever nuts to make installing it even more pleasant.
- ssharp 4y ago
  That looks more sophisticated than what I’m talking about. This is more along the lines of what I’ve seen: https://mobilehomepartsstore.com/parts/230215.html https://mobilehomepartsstore.com/parts/230215.html These are “self-conainted” and don’t go into electric boxes. They’ll a hole gets cut in the drywall and the outlets have ears that push out to attach it to the wall. The wire goes through the back and then the back cover gets tightened and the pressure cuts into the wires to juice the outlets.
  - rascul 4y ago
    Here's what they look like wired up. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1A5LF7NIWnw/T-M82wntRaI/AAAAAAAADZE/OQRcosKVVxE/s1600/To+Ensure+a+Connection,+there+are+Two+Splicing+Jaws+for+each+Wire..jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1A5LF7NIWnw/T-M82wntRaI/AAAAAAAADZ... Supposedly you can just press the insulated wire into the splicing jaws but I've found that only works about half the time and I need to slit the insulation for the splicing jaws to make contact. And then sometimes the screw clip things that hold it in the wall get messed up so it probably needs to be ripped out of the wall, which means the wall needs repaired before putting it back in. Regular outlets are preferred.
    - amluto 4y ago
      That’s... bizarre and not particularly safe looking. A UL listed name brand old work box costs under $3. A UL listed name brand outlet costs less than $1 (or rather more if you want a nice one — $3 gets something entirely respectable). A cover plate costs $0.50 or less. A nice Klein wire stripper costs $20. So for about $7 I can buy a terrifying mobile home outlet that uses insulation displacing contacts and has serious risk of making an accidental high resistance connection and also puts the insulation right next to where heat would be generated. Name brand UL listed parts cost less, can be safely reworked without risking losing the wire behind the wall, almost certainly work better (and the tamper resistant versions protect against little kids to some degree), and have actual respectable contacts for the wire. Heck, even throwing in a torque screwdriver to make the connections correctly will amortize away quite quickly at any sort of scale. But a 110 punch down tool will not make those evil connections on the mobile home part — are you supposed to bang on it with a flathead screwdriver or do you need a fancy spring loaded tool that may well cost more than a nice wire stripper?

by ssharp 4y ago

KennyBlanken 4y ago

> I think all that is fine if you know what you're getting but I suspect a lot of people don't realize what they're actually buying. They realize. They can't afford anything else. From the article: > Almost as soon as trailers appeared, they began to be used for year-round living rather than camping trips, typically by traveling salesman or other itinerant workers. In the 1920s and 30s it was estimated that between 10 and 25% of trailers were used for year-round accommodation. And as unemployment soared and housing starts collapsed during the Great Depression, trailer living became more common. By 1937, it was estimated that 50% of new trailers were purchased as permanent shelter. The "van life" trend should have been a huge warning sign...

01100011 4y ago

There are, or used to be a few decades ago when I last checked, some surprisingly well built factory homes. They're not all mobile home quality. Concerning quality, my sister bought a tract home in WA state a few years ago and the quality was comparable to a mobile home. The appliances were as cheap as possible, cabinets were poor quality, and even the home placement on the non-rectangular lot was very odd. The back fence was about 2' from her rear door, despite having a huge side yard to the right and left.

iancmceachern 4y ago

I was told the following by a guy in central California who built his own little subdivision and put a bunch of double wide manufactured homes on 1 acre plots. This was a pretty rural area. He said that he effectively couldn't find the labor to build even a semi high quality home in that rural of an area. He said anything they'd stick build in that area would be of lesser quality than a decent manufactured home due to lack of good contractor availability. He also said, and my understanding agrees, that once you bolt it to a foundation, all done per code, there isn't really a clean way to say it's anything other than a house. If the while thing is made to code, meets the national and local building codes, is mounted to a code meeting foundation and utilities, it's a house. This applies to manufactured homes built as such, not things like travel trailers or destination trailers which people often conflate with true manufactured homes. Rvs amd destination trailers, things that never go off their wheels and often have lattice or other wood skirting around their base to hide the wheels and frame are regulated by RVIA amd meet their codes, not the national building codes. True manufactured homes meet the national and local building codes, it's just the assembly location is different.

coding123 4y ago
If you have an actual foundation. Most MF homes in CA require the XI2 tie down system. Some of the manufactured home installers don't even pour a drop of concrete when they place your home. Most of the time it's gravel with some stamped concrete plates about 4" thick placed vertically as your "foundation".
- StillBored 4y ago
  https://www.mobilehomerepair.com/mobile-home-anchors-how-they-work-methods-diy-and-more/ https://www.mobilehomerepair.com/mobile-home-anchors-how-the...
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  This guy hired a foundation company and they laid a cinder block and morter foundation.

newsclues 4y ago

Lots of traditionally manufactured homes have the same issues you mentioned, it’s just people cutting corners for cost.

wincy 4y ago

Some of the things I wanted in a manufactured home are ILLEGAL. I thought it was extremely strange that I would have to get a ducted HVAC system. Under floor heating is for some reason literally illegal (unless you retrofit it) and I am still scratching my head as to why.

danans 4y ago
> Under floor heating is for some reason literally illegal (unless you retrofit it) and I am still scratching my head as to why. Mobile homes generally have little no insulation of any kind underneath, and their subfloors are exposed to exterior air, so the heat would be quickly lost to the outside environment. You could in theory make a highly insulated subfloor on a mobile home (i.e. 2" of polyiso foam board) on which you could install electric or hydronic heating, but you would then lose a significant amount of already limited ceiling height.
- rascul 4y ago
  > Mobile homes generally have little no insulation of any kind underneath, and their subfloors are exposed to exterior air, so the heat would be quickly lost to the outside environment. Almost every one I've worked on has a 3/4" sub floor (probably cheap press board), loose fill insulation in between the 2x6 joists, then plastic (5 mil maybe?) attached to the under side of the floor joists. That plastic tends to be very ripped up so much of the floor has exposed or no insulation under it.
  - danans 4y ago
    So little to no insulation. What you describe is "little" insulation. In climates like CA it tends toward "no insulation".
    - rascul 4y ago
      I didn't mean to contradict you, just to expand on it a bit. The insulation is generally crap, in the places it exists. Edit: Sorry if my comment came out the wrong way.

cudgy 4y ago

An inspection is required for most home purchases that are financed. The inspection report would clearly indicate the construction type. If buyers aren’t reading their inspection reports, what can you do?

zippergz 4y ago
I don't think this is accurate in the US. Yes, FHA loans require inspections, but they are WELL under half of all mortgages, and I am not aware of any other major lenders or loan programs that require inspections (there probably are some, but I have never encountered one in many home purchases and sales). Most do require appraisals, but an appraisal is very different than an inspection, and usually the buyer does not see the appraisal report (as the actual customer is the lender, not the buyer).
analog31 4y ago
I've had home inspections done. It's a scam. The inspector finds one or two token things, and creates a fancy looking report.

amluto 4y ago

> the electric wires are 3-in-1 wires that snap directly into the outlets I’m curious what these are. I’ve seen these, and they’re quite nice and more expensive than normal outlets: https://www.legrand.us/pass-and-seymour/plugtail https://www.legrand.us/pass-and-seymour/plugtail They’re convenient if you have a large electrical box and you need a pigtail anyway (e.g. you’re jumping off the box to feed another outlet), but not really a win otherwise. If you buy them, get the stranded version for an extra dollar or so and consider using lever nuts to make installing it even more pleasant.

ssharp 4y ago
That looks more sophisticated than what I’m talking about. This is more along the lines of what I’ve seen: https://mobilehomepartsstore.com/parts/230215.html https://mobilehomepartsstore.com/parts/230215.html These are “self-conainted” and don’t go into electric boxes. They’ll a hole gets cut in the drywall and the outlets have ears that push out to attach it to the wall. The wire goes through the back and then the back cover gets tightened and the pressure cuts into the wires to juice the outlets.
- rascul 4y ago
  Here's what they look like wired up. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1A5LF7NIWnw/T-M82wntRaI/AAAAAAAADZE/OQRcosKVVxE/s1600/To+Ensure+a+Connection,+there+are+Two+Splicing+Jaws+for+each+Wire..jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1A5LF7NIWnw/T-M82wntRaI/AAAAAAAADZ... Supposedly you can just press the insulated wire into the splicing jaws but I've found that only works about half the time and I need to slit the insulation for the splicing jaws to make contact. And then sometimes the screw clip things that hold it in the wall get messed up so it probably needs to be ripped out of the wall, which means the wall needs repaired before putting it back in. Regular outlets are preferred.
  - amluto 4y ago
    That’s... bizarre and not particularly safe looking. A UL listed name brand old work box costs under $3. A UL listed name brand outlet costs less than $1 (or rather more if you want a nice one — $3 gets something entirely respectable). A cover plate costs $0.50 or less. A nice Klein wire stripper costs $20. So for about $7 I can buy a terrifying mobile home outlet that uses insulation displacing contacts and has serious risk of making an accidental high resistance connection and also puts the insulation right next to where heat would be generated. Name brand UL listed parts cost less, can be safely reworked without risking losing the wire behind the wall, almost certainly work better (and the tamper resistant versions protect against little kids to some degree), and have actual respectable contacts for the wire. Heck, even throwing in a torque screwdriver to make the connections correctly will amortize away quite quickly at any sort of scale. But a 110 punch down tool will not make those evil connections on the mobile home part — are you supposed to bang on it with a flathead screwdriver or do you need a fancy spring loaded tool that may well cost more than a nice wire stripper?