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My wife and I are both software engineers. My wife consistently outearned me. Then we had a baby and she wanted to stay home. It's not about total money, it'

My wife and I are both software engineers. My wife consistently outearned me. Then we had a baby and she wanted to stay home. It's not about total money, it's about quality of life too. I made enough money to support everyone. Of course five years later I now make more than my wife did. I wanted (and still do) to stay home with my kids (my brother does), but my wife doesn't want to work when the kids are little. Plus, if we both worked we could easily afford daycare. In fact if my wife worked I think we could probably retire in a few years since she was bringing in quite a bit. But the idea that if only we could pay women more than men they wouldn't leave is silly. Families don't just value money or even early retirement or whatever. There is no amount of money to replace your child's early years.

lapcat 4y ago
You seem to be changing your story here. First: "my wife left her tech job because she didn't like the way she was treated. This leaves me forced to work my tech job whether I like my boss or not, because we have several mouths to feed." Now: "Then we had a baby and she wanted to stay home." "my wife doesn't want to work when the kids are little." Theoretically, both could be true. But plenty of people leave their jobs because they don't like the way they were treated, and then get a new job without leaving tech. It sounds like leaving tech for a number of years was about children rather than mistreatment though. Which goes against the claim that "men are more resilient".
- anon291 4y ago
  Both are true. She quit her job without a backup (something I never do), because of the way she was treated. She got pregnant. Thought she'd have the baby, take some time off and go back. But she loves spending all her time with our daughter. > Which goes against the claim that "men are more resilient". I never said men are more resilient. That's a bit of a value judgement. I don't claim men are better at this. I just think that male resilience looks like a man not quitting, because men have no option. Female resilience is other things, but we need not discuss them here. A man has no option to leave a job. Thus he stays.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > I never said men are more resilient. "The heterodox view here is that unfair treatment is not a reason men leave tech jobs because men are more resilient to it." > I just think that male resilience looks like a man not quitting, because men have no option. Men quit their jobs all the time, without a backup. I quit my job without a backup. Maybe you never do it, but your anecdotal feelings do not apply to men in general. You keep saying that you have no option, that men have no option - that's just false. Everyone always has an option. Taking that option may have significantly negative financial consequences, but so it goes. It sounds like your wife quitting her job already had significantly negative financial consequences on your family: "In fact if my wife worked I think we could probably retire in a few years since she was bringing in quite a bit." You have the option to divorce your wife if you're angry and bitter that she won't go back to work. It's really strange to suggest that women have options but men don't. You think you have no options, but it seems that only your own mind is holding you back. I'm not saying you should divorce your wife, but you could. Or you could quit your job and tell your wife it's her turn to support the family while you stay home. A man has options. The argument seems to be that men have no options because of what "society" thinks. But there is no societal hive mind. Society is actually bitterly divided on these issues. There are some ultra-conservative types who want women barefoot, pregnant, and subservient, but hopefully we can get past that.
    - anon291 4y ago
      My statement is quite clear. It's not a blanket statement that 'men are resilient'. It's that men are resilient to leaving tech jobs (and other well-paying jobs) because we're kind of forced to keep working by how families typically end up being set up. That is not a blanket statement that men are more resilient, which would be a statement saying that all male adults are more resilient than female adults, which is not categorically true.
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > It's that men are resilient to leaving tech jobs (and other well-paying jobs) because we're kind of forced to keep working by how families typically end up being set up. But these two things — (1) men are resilient to leaving tech jobs and (2) men are forced to keep working — are precisely what I'm questioning, not a "blanket statement". How families typically end up being set up is a result, not a cause. You're not forced to be typical. Honestly, you make men sound pretty weak, as if they have no agency, and are powerless in the face of society and their spouses.

lapcat 4y ago

You seem to be changing your story here. First: "my wife left her tech job because she didn't like the way she was treated. This leaves me forced to work my tech job whether I like my boss or not, because we have several mouths to feed." Now: "Then we had a baby and she wanted to stay home." "my wife doesn't want to work when the kids are little." Theoretically, both could be true. But plenty of people leave their jobs because they don't like the way they were treated, and then get a new job without leaving tech. It sounds like leaving tech for a number of years was about children rather than mistreatment though. Which goes against the claim that "men are more resilient".

anon291 4y ago
Both are true. She quit her job without a backup (something I never do), because of the way she was treated. She got pregnant. Thought she'd have the baby, take some time off and go back. But she loves spending all her time with our daughter. > Which goes against the claim that "men are more resilient". I never said men are more resilient. That's a bit of a value judgement. I don't claim men are better at this. I just think that male resilience looks like a man not quitting, because men have no option. Female resilience is other things, but we need not discuss them here. A man has no option to leave a job. Thus he stays.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > I never said men are more resilient. "The heterodox view here is that unfair treatment is not a reason men leave tech jobs because men are more resilient to it." > I just think that male resilience looks like a man not quitting, because men have no option. Men quit their jobs all the time, without a backup. I quit my job without a backup. Maybe you never do it, but your anecdotal feelings do not apply to men in general. You keep saying that you have no option, that men have no option - that's just false. Everyone always has an option. Taking that option may have significantly negative financial consequences, but so it goes. It sounds like your wife quitting her job already had significantly negative financial consequences on your family: "In fact if my wife worked I think we could probably retire in a few years since she was bringing in quite a bit." You have the option to divorce your wife if you're angry and bitter that she won't go back to work. It's really strange to suggest that women have options but men don't. You think you have no options, but it seems that only your own mind is holding you back. I'm not saying you should divorce your wife, but you could. Or you could quit your job and tell your wife it's her turn to support the family while you stay home. A man has options. The argument seems to be that men have no options because of what "society" thinks. But there is no societal hive mind. Society is actually bitterly divided on these issues. There are some ultra-conservative types who want women barefoot, pregnant, and subservient, but hopefully we can get past that.
  - anon291 4y ago
    My statement is quite clear. It's not a blanket statement that 'men are resilient'. It's that men are resilient to leaving tech jobs (and other well-paying jobs) because we're kind of forced to keep working by how families typically end up being set up. That is not a blanket statement that men are more resilient, which would be a statement saying that all male adults are more resilient than female adults, which is not categorically true.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > It's that men are resilient to leaving tech jobs (and other well-paying jobs) because we're kind of forced to keep working by how families typically end up being set up. But these two things — (1) men are resilient to leaving tech jobs and (2) men are forced to keep working — are precisely what I'm questioning, not a "blanket statement". How families typically end up being set up is a result, not a cause. You're not forced to be typical. Honestly, you make men sound pretty weak, as if they have no agency, and are powerless in the face of society and their spouses.