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The narrative that America’s issues stem from socioeconomic classism instead of racism is just as biased and full of assumptions that it might as well be centri

The narrative that America’s issues stem from socioeconomic classism instead of racism is just as biased and full of assumptions that it might as well be centrist propaganda. From a non-American looking outside, America clearly has both, and nothing screams American stupidity more than its people debating which of the two is the root cause of their suffering, as if the debate in itself matters and as if it’s supposed to be a contest of who’s more oppressed. The only thing that this whole debate does is for classism and racism issues to cancel each other out and for people protesting socioeconomic inequality to gloss over the issues of racism (I don’t see people protesting racism invalidating the existence of socioeconomic inequality in America). People who believe that racism is a class issue can’t even explain how it is so, or how come an affluent African-American man can still be discriminated against in affluent circles on the basis of his skin color. This is not where the discourse should be headed.

Mezzie 4y ago
> I don’t see people protesting racism invalidating the existence of socioeconomic inequality in America. I have. Mostly college kids in private colleges; they're in a bubble and only exposed to other well-off kids, which means that none of them have experience with classism and therefore they can dismiss it, whereas racism is a problem for rich POC and therefore, because it can affect their classmates, it's a huge issue (just like homophobia, transphobia, and sexism). But it happens outside of that as well. One example is the framing of what happened in Flint as a solely racial issue, when the city is poor as hell (I made 28k and I believe I was in the top 20% of household income for the city) and about half its residents are white. The people making those arguments had never been to Flint and wouldn't have cared about the white students I saw who were so poor they only had a single set of clothes. Flint wouldn't have happened to a city of rich black people. (Of course, the fact that the city proper has more POC is partially due to the impacts of racism so the disproportionate impact is caused by racism and I wouldn't deny that). Like how I see racism mostly dismissed from people who live in poor, white majority areas: It's really hard to understand the pervasiveness of racism if you're in that situation. (And from racists, of course, just like classists dismiss classism.)
- zozbot234 4y ago
  "College kids in private colleges" are a tiny minority, are you sure that they comprise most of those protesting racism in the U.S. e.g. as regards policing and criminal justice? That's quite disappointing if true.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    No. The OP just had mentioned not being sure if it DID occur, so I weighed in to say it did. I wouldn't say they're most of the people against racism (particularly when it comes to criminal justice and incarceration issues), but they do have an outsized media presence precisely due to their privilege. These topics are so filter bubbled I don't have a good sense of which, if either, of the two dismissals is objectively more common.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > "College kids in private colleges" are a tiny minority, are you sure that they comprise most of those protesting racism in the U.S. e.g. as regards policing and criminal justice? That's quite disappointing if true. They are tiny minority with a disproportionately loud voice. They are also probably the group where the people with the loudest voices in society tend to be drawn from.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
  I only meant to say that in my subjective experience of the internet, I hardly see it happening but I did not discount that it could happen. Anyway, this is really a small part of my entire comment.
  - Mezzie 4y ago
    It was, yes! Just a part I found interesting to contrast our bubbles. I'm a nerd about the subjectivity of the modern internet experience.
- relaxing 4y ago
  > Flint wouldn't have happened to a city of rich black people. Bizarre statement since no such thing exists. Previous attempts at creating a rich black city were met with violent white supremacy. The possibility a black community could be rich enough to buy influence to prevent its municipal water from being switched to a source that corrodes its water mains is so far removed from reality, it hardly seems useful to speculate on. > the fact that the city proper has more POC is partially due to the impacts of racism No, it’s entirely due to racism through explicit public policies such as redlining.
zozbot234 4y ago
> The narrative that America’s issues stem from socioeconomic classism instead of racism ¿Por qué no los dos? "Race" is merely a social construct, and subcultural differences are a big part of what defines that construct in the first place. And the whole point of referencing 'class' is that social and economic differences can in turn feed back on culture.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
  > ¿Por qué no los dos? You should have read my entire comment before you replied.

Mezzie 4y ago

> I don’t see people protesting racism invalidating the existence of socioeconomic inequality in America. I have. Mostly college kids in private colleges; they're in a bubble and only exposed to other well-off kids, which means that none of them have experience with classism and therefore they can dismiss it, whereas racism is a problem for rich POC and therefore, because it can affect their classmates, it's a huge issue (just like homophobia, transphobia, and sexism). But it happens outside of that as well. One example is the framing of what happened in Flint as a solely racial issue, when the city is poor as hell (I made 28k and I believe I was in the top 20% of household income for the city) and about half its residents are white. The people making those arguments had never been to Flint and wouldn't have cared about the white students I saw who were so poor they only had a single set of clothes. Flint wouldn't have happened to a city of rich black people. (Of course, the fact that the city proper has more POC is partially due to the impacts of racism so the disproportionate impact is caused by racism and I wouldn't deny that). Like how I see racism mostly dismissed from people who live in poor, white majority areas: It's really hard to understand the pervasiveness of racism if you're in that situation. (And from racists, of course, just like classists dismiss classism.)

zozbot234 4y ago
"College kids in private colleges" are a tiny minority, are you sure that they comprise most of those protesting racism in the U.S. e.g. as regards policing and criminal justice? That's quite disappointing if true.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  No. The OP just had mentioned not being sure if it DID occur, so I weighed in to say it did. I wouldn't say they're most of the people against racism (particularly when it comes to criminal justice and incarceration issues), but they do have an outsized media presence precisely due to their privilege. These topics are so filter bubbled I don't have a good sense of which, if either, of the two dismissals is objectively more common.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > "College kids in private colleges" are a tiny minority, are you sure that they comprise most of those protesting racism in the U.S. e.g. as regards policing and criminal justice? That's quite disappointing if true. They are tiny minority with a disproportionately loud voice. They are also probably the group where the people with the loudest voices in society tend to be drawn from.
rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
I only meant to say that in my subjective experience of the internet, I hardly see it happening but I did not discount that it could happen. Anyway, this is really a small part of my entire comment.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  It was, yes! Just a part I found interesting to contrast our bubbles. I'm a nerd about the subjectivity of the modern internet experience.
relaxing 4y ago
> Flint wouldn't have happened to a city of rich black people. Bizarre statement since no such thing exists. Previous attempts at creating a rich black city were met with violent white supremacy. The possibility a black community could be rich enough to buy influence to prevent its municipal water from being switched to a source that corrodes its water mains is so far removed from reality, it hardly seems useful to speculate on. > the fact that the city proper has more POC is partially due to the impacts of racism No, it’s entirely due to racism through explicit public policies such as redlining.

zozbot234 4y ago

> The narrative that America’s issues stem from socioeconomic classism instead of racism ¿Por qué no los dos? "Race" is merely a social construct, and subcultural differences are a big part of what defines that construct in the first place. And the whole point of referencing 'class' is that social and economic differences can in turn feed back on culture.

rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
> ¿Por qué no los dos? You should have read my entire comment before you replied.