5 ms·

How much of that is because research from the 1970s is effectively locked away behind ACM and IEEE paywalls? How much research gets rehashed because the researc

How much of that is because research from the 1970s is effectively locked away behind ACM and IEEE paywalls? How much research gets rehashed because the researcher can't find the result he or she is looking for via the atrocious search tools provided by the likes of Elsevier? I think that more openness in scientific publication will in fact mitigate the problem of people being quick-on-the-draw, as contradictory findings and previous publications of similar results will be easier to find, even by the non-scientific audience.

kd0amg 15y ago
>> I notice this particularly in computer science, where it seems nobody is capable of locating or reading journal articles published before around 1995, a handful of canonical "classic" papers excepted. How much of that is because research from the 1970s is effectively locked away behind ACM and IEEE paywalls? If you're serious about keeping up with research, a couple hundred dollars every year to get through a paywall doesn't sound so bad. The real problem with the stuff from the 1970s and earlier is that it's not readily available even to paying members. When I went looking for an article from 1970, the ACM Digital Library had an entry for it but not the document itself.
- impendia 15y ago
  "A couple hundred dollars"? I see that you are not familiar with the pricing schemes of Elsevier and others.
  - kd0amg 15y ago
    I thought what I quoted was about ACM/IEEE. $198 per year (less than that for students) to the ACM gets you unlimited access to their online archives. I didn't check the IEEE rate, as I rarely encounter a paper I have to get from them instead of from ACM -- is it much more? What am I missing out on by not checking Elsevier's stash?
    - impendia 15y ago
      I am in math rather than CS/EE. I am not precisely sure, and indeed Elsevier goes to some effort to make their pricing complicated, but I am pretty sure it runs well into the thousands. I am a professor at a reasonably good state university, having just come from Stanford. At Stanford they subscribed to everything, and here our department picks and chooses so that I constantly run into paywalls despite a university subscription. I don't know how much it would be to upgrade to Stanford-level access, but if it were $200 a professor I assume they'd do it. (Certainly I'd pay $200 from my salary for that.) I'm guessing high four or low five figures per prof in the department. I'm guessing ACM/IEEE are nonprofits? Kudos to them for making their prices reasonable. There are some professional organizations in math (e.g. the AMS) that do something similar. But unfortunately a lot of our journals are published by for-profit companies.
      - pnathan 15y ago
        The ACM and the IEEE are the key professional societies for computer science, computer engineering, and electrical engineering research. Wikipedia says the IEEE is non-profit, not sure about the ACM. IEEE weights towards the EE and high-math end of things, ACM weights towards the CS end of things. The Journal of the ACM is about $300USD/yr for print/online access (nonmember). I have a wide variety of interests and would prefer to have full access to about 5-7 journals (Some Wiley, some Elsevier). Assuming $300/year prices that's a pretty decent sized price to keep up with research interests. :-(
      - pnathan 15y ago
        The ACM and the IEEE are the key professional societies for computer science, computer engineering, and electrical engineering research. Wikipedia says the IEEE is non-profit, not sure about the ACM. IEEE weights towards the EE and high-math end of things, ACM weights towards the CS end of things. The Journal of the ACM is about $300USD/yr for print/online access (nonmember). I have a wide variety of interests and would prefer to have full access to about 5-7 journals (Some Wiley, some Elsevier). Assuming $300/year prices that's a pretty decent sized price to keep up with research interests. :-(

kd0amg 15y ago

>> I notice this particularly in computer science, where it seems nobody is capable of locating or reading journal articles published before around 1995, a handful of canonical "classic" papers excepted. How much of that is because research from the 1970s is effectively locked away behind ACM and IEEE paywalls? If you're serious about keeping up with research, a couple hundred dollars every year to get through a paywall doesn't sound so bad. The real problem with the stuff from the 1970s and earlier is that it's not readily available even to paying members. When I went looking for an article from 1970, the ACM Digital Library had an entry for it but not the document itself.

impendia 15y ago
"A couple hundred dollars"? I see that you are not familiar with the pricing schemes of Elsevier and others.
- kd0amg 15y ago
  I thought what I quoted was about ACM/IEEE. $198 per year (less than that for students) to the ACM gets you unlimited access to their online archives. I didn't check the IEEE rate, as I rarely encounter a paper I have to get from them instead of from ACM -- is it much more? What am I missing out on by not checking Elsevier's stash?
  - impendia 15y ago
    I am in math rather than CS/EE. I am not precisely sure, and indeed Elsevier goes to some effort to make their pricing complicated, but I am pretty sure it runs well into the thousands. I am a professor at a reasonably good state university, having just come from Stanford. At Stanford they subscribed to everything, and here our department picks and chooses so that I constantly run into paywalls despite a university subscription. I don't know how much it would be to upgrade to Stanford-level access, but if it were $200 a professor I assume they'd do it. (Certainly I'd pay $200 from my salary for that.) I'm guessing high four or low five figures per prof in the department. I'm guessing ACM/IEEE are nonprofits? Kudos to them for making their prices reasonable. There are some professional organizations in math (e.g. the AMS) that do something similar. But unfortunately a lot of our journals are published by for-profit companies.
    - pnathan 15y ago
      The ACM and the IEEE are the key professional societies for computer science, computer engineering, and electrical engineering research. Wikipedia says the IEEE is non-profit, not sure about the ACM. IEEE weights towards the EE and high-math end of things, ACM weights towards the CS end of things. The Journal of the ACM is about $300USD/yr for print/online access (nonmember). I have a wide variety of interests and would prefer to have full access to about 5-7 journals (Some Wiley, some Elsevier). Assuming $300/year prices that's a pretty decent sized price to keep up with research interests. :-(
    - pnathan 15y ago
      The ACM and the IEEE are the key professional societies for computer science, computer engineering, and electrical engineering research. Wikipedia says the IEEE is non-profit, not sure about the ACM. IEEE weights towards the EE and high-math end of things, ACM weights towards the CS end of things. The Journal of the ACM is about $300USD/yr for print/online access (nonmember). I have a wide variety of interests and would prefer to have full access to about 5-7 journals (Some Wiley, some Elsevier). Assuming $300/year prices that's a pretty decent sized price to keep up with research interests. :-(