5 ms·

The GP's video shows them using a spraying train car to do it much, much faster. It still has people riding on it and walking alongside, but sure looks more eff

by lkbm 4y ago

The GP's video shows them using a spraying train car to do it much, much faster. It still has people riding on it and walking alongside, but sure looks more efficient. Meanwhile, I notice that all the replies to the UK video are people complaining about the rail system reducing headcount and mocking the idea that this task could be automated.

makomk 4y ago
For context, a bunch of UK rail staff have been striking lately and one of their demands is no efficiency improvements or compulsory redundances. (They also want a substantial pay increase of course.)
- gambiting 4y ago
  If you read anything about their demands, you will discover that from this year their contract is changing to require more hours at the same pay, so they are literally being given a paycut. In every other industry that would be illegal, but rail workers are expected to just suck it up and be grateful that they even still have a job, right? They protest compulsory redundancies because they know exactly how the British system works - a lot of people will be fired and the rest expected to just pick up the slack and work more hours, without any improvement like automation. And among other things changes like not being paid for their commute when doing overtime(which was paid for previously), at the time when petrol has crossed £2/L around the country.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    Are pay cuts illegal in UK? Wow, that’s insane.
    - laumars 4y ago
      Why is that insane?
    - gambiting 4y ago
      Why is it insane? Maybe I should have clarified - your employer cannot cut your pay without a very good reason and you have to agree to it. In general it's a very tricky process legally, just like letting someone go - you need to make sure it's done correctly or you will lose in court. They cannot just say "from next month you will work extra 2 hours a week at same pay". Like....no? That's not in the employment contract we have signed, it binds both sides. And yet that's exactly what is happening to rail workers.
      - xyzzyz 4y ago
        Your clarification makes more sense -- I also consider reduction in pay to be equivalent to firing, a piecewise one. I understand that it means that has to follow all rules about firing people, and that much I also find reasonable. At the same time, I find the rules about firing commonly found in Europe as wrongheaded, but that's not my complain above, which is about "illegality of pay reduction".
        galangalalgol 4y ago
        Do we count price increases on healthcare provided through an employer as a paycut? If so, everyone I know has been getting paycuts for years even ignoring inflation.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - makomk 4y ago
    None of the media coverage I've seen or can find seems to mention this supposed paycut due to more hours at the same pay, including in really sympathetic outlets like the Guardian which describes their demands as being exactly what I claimed. In fact, the only change to terms I can find anywhere that even vaguely resembles that is that maybe some staff will no longer get the same generous overtime multiplier on Sunday, and that's from the literal World Socialist site which is vague enough in their wording that I suspect they might be playing sneaky word games again. (They're... not the most trustworthy source.)
londons_explore 4y ago
Such automation will be banned in the UK. Painting things has to be done by hand. Union rules. No unauthorized mechanization! Spray cans are untested technology and are unsafe. Spray paint is worse for the environment and workers health. Besides, painting by hand is better for morale. Painting will obviously have to happen at night (double pay), and is risky work (double pay again). Oh, and we can't do more than 3 hour shifts because it involves bending down. And we'll be needing a minimum crew of 8 - 1 painter, 1 safety expert, 1 signalling expert, 1 electrics expert, 1 spotter, 1 paint quality expert, a foreman to lead the team, and a union rep to check everything is done according to the book. Oh, and wherever the work is being done more than 15 minutes from a toilet, we'll need a mobile toilet booked and installed, as well as a break room. If any of those people are missing or late, we'll cancel the work and retry in 3 months.
- lol768 4y ago
  Railroad deaths and injuries per capita are much lower than in the USA. I'd say the unions and RAIB have done a pretty good job at improving safety standards.
  - thecompilr 4y ago
    Ah, but railroad workers in the US are also part of a union/unions, with arguably even more rules and regulations and very averse to technological advances, since it reduces the need for manual labor. So yeah USA would have more deaths because everything is manual and archaic, whereas in the UK you have things like the DLR, it could never happen in the US.
    - londons_explore 4y ago
      The DLR is only automated because it's brand new. It replaced nobodies job. And even that was a real fight to get and caused lots of strikes.
      - thecompilr 4y ago
Nition 4y ago
It's even spraying in front of the train car and then apparently rolling right over it without much trouble (although I note some white paint on the wheels).
- rob74 4y ago
  I don't think anyone is expecting the paint to stick to the rolling surface of the rail for very long, but that (on a track with regular usage) gets polished by the passing trains, so it's reflective anyway...

by lkbm 4y ago

makomk 4y ago

For context, a bunch of UK rail staff have been striking lately and one of their demands is no efficiency improvements or compulsory redundances. (They also want a substantial pay increase of course.)

gambiting 4y ago
If you read anything about their demands, you will discover that from this year their contract is changing to require more hours at the same pay, so they are literally being given a paycut. In every other industry that would be illegal, but rail workers are expected to just suck it up and be grateful that they even still have a job, right? They protest compulsory redundancies because they know exactly how the British system works - a lot of people will be fired and the rest expected to just pick up the slack and work more hours, without any improvement like automation. And among other things changes like not being paid for their commute when doing overtime(which was paid for previously), at the time when petrol has crossed £2/L around the country.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  Are pay cuts illegal in UK? Wow, that’s insane.
  - laumars 4y ago
    Why is that insane?
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Why is it insane? Maybe I should have clarified - your employer cannot cut your pay without a very good reason and you have to agree to it. In general it's a very tricky process legally, just like letting someone go - you need to make sure it's done correctly or you will lose in court. They cannot just say "from next month you will work extra 2 hours a week at same pay". Like....no? That's not in the employment contract we have signed, it binds both sides. And yet that's exactly what is happening to rail workers.
    - xyzzyz 4y ago
      Your clarification makes more sense -- I also consider reduction in pay to be equivalent to firing, a piecewise one. I understand that it means that has to follow all rules about firing people, and that much I also find reasonable. At the same time, I find the rules about firing commonly found in Europe as wrongheaded, but that's not my complain above, which is about "illegality of pay reduction".
      - galangalalgol 4y ago
        Do we count price increases on healthcare provided through an employer as a paycut? If so, everyone I know has been getting paycuts for years even ignoring inflation.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- makomk 4y ago
  None of the media coverage I've seen or can find seems to mention this supposed paycut due to more hours at the same pay, including in really sympathetic outlets like the Guardian which describes their demands as being exactly what I claimed. In fact, the only change to terms I can find anywhere that even vaguely resembles that is that maybe some staff will no longer get the same generous overtime multiplier on Sunday, and that's from the literal World Socialist site which is vague enough in their wording that I suspect they might be playing sneaky word games again. (They're... not the most trustworthy source.)

londons_explore 4y ago

Such automation will be banned in the UK. Painting things has to be done by hand. Union rules. No unauthorized mechanization! Spray cans are untested technology and are unsafe. Spray paint is worse for the environment and workers health. Besides, painting by hand is better for morale. Painting will obviously have to happen at night (double pay), and is risky work (double pay again). Oh, and we can't do more than 3 hour shifts because it involves bending down. And we'll be needing a minimum crew of 8 - 1 painter, 1 safety expert, 1 signalling expert, 1 electrics expert, 1 spotter, 1 paint quality expert, a foreman to lead the team, and a union rep to check everything is done according to the book. Oh, and wherever the work is being done more than 15 minutes from a toilet, we'll need a mobile toilet booked and installed, as well as a break room. If any of those people are missing or late, we'll cancel the work and retry in 3 months.

lol768 4y ago
Railroad deaths and injuries per capita are much lower than in the USA. I'd say the unions and RAIB have done a pretty good job at improving safety standards.
- thecompilr 4y ago
  Ah, but railroad workers in the US are also part of a union/unions, with arguably even more rules and regulations and very averse to technological advances, since it reduces the need for manual labor. So yeah USA would have more deaths because everything is manual and archaic, whereas in the UK you have things like the DLR, it could never happen in the US.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    The DLR is only automated because it's brand new. It replaced nobodies job. And even that was a real fight to get and caused lots of strikes.
    - thecompilr 4y ago

Nition 4y ago

It's even spraying in front of the train car and then apparently rolling right over it without much trouble (although I note some white paint on the wheels).

rob74 4y ago
I don't think anyone is expecting the paint to stick to the rolling surface of the rail for very long, but that (on a track with regular usage) gets polished by the passing trains, so it's reflective anyway...